I have a concern about the Shanahan offensive scheme.

[zskins]

Interesting thread OF. Your argument is lost to me because how padding one's stats going to get one to win a SB? Which looks better - Look everyone I had awesome offensive stats when I was a coach or look everyone I have 4 SB rings!!! Do you think Andy Reid is going to be remembered as to how good his offense stats were with the Eagles or the fact that he never won a SB with them?

[Oldfan]

You hope in vain for the most part ......

I know. That's why I didn't assert that corporate stats are less deceptive.

[Bang]

Well, so far Mike would seem to be following your line of thinking.

We are rushing the ball on average 32 times per game... 7th in the league, and we're 4th in rushing yards.. with a long run of only 39. I've seen a lot of 6-12 yard runs.. good hard runs into traffic... so it's been effective. I do agree the ZBS racks up stats with long cutback runs, but this offense, not so much. a lot of grinder yards are piling up.

In reading what OF said above about the defense's inability to get off the field having an effect on this stat, i agree, but I think what the offensive stats do show is that even though the 'bend but don't break' defense is also allowing the opponent to rack up TOP, we've done the same to try and limit their opportunities. We have attempted, and been somewhat successful at ball control. So far, on average, we hold the ball about 2 minutes longer than the opponent. Not long, but good for 7th in the league in the TOP stat.
I think the relatively conservative approach we saw last weekend has something to do with trying to keep the defense off the field.

However, given the defense's proclivity to give up the quick strike as well as the long drive, I'd like to see us try to get a little more electric in grabbing and increasing a lead early. Give the defense some cushion to play with.

~Bang

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Forgive me for getting off topic Of, but shy of a PM or a bump I didn't know how to bring this up.

Did you read/ hear the HC yesterday more or less saying the ST Coach is the one that indentifies, scouts and picks his specialists? Just adds a different slant to your theory on where his personnel comes from the next time the topics at hand.

Hail.

[Dallsux]

Our OLine has not always allowed for us to maintain drives by running the ball effectively for long sustained drives.

The biggest breakdowns have been on defense & special teams.

Those 3 areas are a big problem.

Also, bare in mind that just because some hasbeen/neverwas QB that played for our current coach years ago made a comment in a national publication doesn't make it true or current. It is possible, but highly unlikely that ANY coach in this League is or was concerned with statistical rankings over winning games.

The only people I've ever heard be concerned with stats is the media & the fans. Other than players breaking particular records (ie. Walter Payton's rushing record or Dan Marino's passing record), most of the time players & coaches appear to be oblivious to stats & rankings. And half the time they even have to be told.

Don't put your trust in Jake Plummer. The Broncos couldn't do it. The Cardinals couldn't do it. You shouldn't either.

[Oldfan]

Interesting thread OF. Your argument is lost to me because how padding one's stats going to get one to win a SB? Which looks better - Look everyone I had awesome offense stat when I was a coach or look everyone I have 4 SB rings!!! Do you think Andy Reid is going to be remembered as to how good his offense stats were with the Eagles or the fact that he never won a SB with them?

Your comment confuses me. You say my argument is lost to you. Then you continue with remarks that seem to agree with me; winning should be the goal not achieving high rankings. Right?

[Oldfan]

Well, so far Mike would seem to be following your line of thinking.

We are rushing the ball on average 32 times per game... 7th in the league, and we're 4th in rushing yards.. with a long run of only 39. I've seen a lot of 6-12 yard runs.. good hard runs into traffic... so it's been effective. I do agree the ZBS racks up stats with long cutback runs, but this offense, not so much. a lot of grinder yards are piling up.

In reading what OF said above about the defense's inability to get off the field having an effect on this stat, i agree, but I think what the offensive stats do show is that even though the 'bend but don't break' defense is also allowing the opponent to rack of TOP, we've done the same to try and limit their opportunities. We have attempted, and been somewhat successful at ball control.
I think the relatively conservative approach we saw last weekend has something to do with trying to keep the defense off the field.

~Bang

I wrote the OP based on the Shanahan offense seen over 12 seasons. I wasn't thinking of the stats on a five-game sample this season at all. I hadn't noticed a push toward ball control.

---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 09:37 AM ----------

Our OLine has not always allowed for us to maintain drives by running the ball effectively for long sustained drives.

The biggest breakdowns have been on defense & special teams.

Those 3 areas are a big problem.

Also, bare in mind that just because some hasbeen/neverwas QB that played for our current coach years ago made a comment in a national publication doesn't make it true or current. It is possible, but highly unlikely that ANY coach in this League is or was concerned with statistical rankings over winning games.

The only people I've ever heard be concerned with stats is the media & the fans. Other than players breaking particular records (ie. Walter Payton's rushing record or Dan Marino's passing record), most of the time players & coaches appear to be oblivious to stats & rankings. And half the time they even have to be told.

Don't put your trust in Jake Plummer. The Broncos couldn't do it. The Cardinals couldn't do it. You shouldn't either.

I believed Plummer's comment because he wasn't making a general comment about Shanahan's coaching. His criticism was very specific. In addition, I had suspected that Mike was focused on offensive stats based on other evidence as I noted.

---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 09:41 AM ----------

Forgive me for getting off topic Of, but shy of a PM or a bump I didn't know how to bring this up.

Did you read/ hear the HC yesterday more or less saying the ST Coach is the one that indentifies, scouts and picks his specialists? Just adds a different slant to your theory on where his personnel comes from the next time the topics at hand.

Hail.

I didn't hear him say that. You mean Danny has the final say?

[NLC1054]

Jake Plummer is what one would call an "unreliable source."

[rk3025]

Would like to bring Bill Cowher as consultant on looking at 3rd down plays. If he was the opposing coach, what plays would he call against our offense and defense by watching film and seeing our tendency for defense and offense?
We would be a lot better if we could make third downs and stop others on 3rd downs.

[DaSkinzBaby]

Your comment confuses me. You say my argument is lost to you. Then you continue with remarks that seem to agree with me; winning should be the goal not achieving high rankings. Right?

It should unless there are other circumstances like the main reason for you coming back to coach is so your son gets more experience, or making sure it takes 5 full years to turn a team and organization around when it takes other franchises 2 at most.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... I didn't hear him say that. You mean Danny has the final say?

He alluded to that without outright saying it. He was naturally asked about the new guy Forbath in yesterdays presser; and responded by saying the questions should be directed to the STC as he studies every kicker out there and chose to bring the tryouts in and who we went with off that.

You can take from that what you want, and I'm sure the final say comes down to the HC and GM. But that as much as anything seemed to vindicate what I've always thought that the STC is heavily involved more than anyone in who his specialists are.

Hail.

[DC9]

I didn't hear him say that. You mean Danny has the final say?

On what he knew Forbath before he decided to sign him:

“You would have to ask [Special Teams Coordinator] Danny Smith. I know he studies all the kickers and I know he was one of the top kickers in the country and we looked at all the percentages, but I’m sure Danny knew him well.”

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthre...s-Coach-amp-RB

We call this, the "owned complex"

It happens when you are owned, and you know you're owned, but you're going to bs your way out of it somehow.

[DaSkinzBaby]

Forgive me for getting off topic Of, but shy of a PM or a bump I didn't know how to bring this up.

Did you read/ hear the HC yesterday more or less saying the ST Coach is the one that indentifies, scouts and picks his specialists? Just adds a different slant to your theory on where his personnel comes from the next time the topics at hand.

Hail.

So does it even seem logical that at this point in MS career a ST coach that can't even get consistent play from his players has final say so?? Well then if that is the case then that also makes my thoughts and comments about allowing his son more lead way to be more credible. Hell if you give a ST coach final say so over things than I know good and damn well a son would also get final say on things......WOW that is a damning statement if that is what in fact was said and not misunderstood..........................

[Boss_Hogg]

This is a good juicy topic for a crisp Thursday morning.

However I highly doubt Mike is more obsessed with stats than wins. Jake Plummer has personality issues, so I would take anything he says with a grain of salt. Besides, Mike actually turned Plummer into a decent QB in Denver.

I'm sure he's still butt-hurt over the trade to the Bucs in 2007.

[DC9]

So does it even seem logical that at this point in MS career a ST coach that can't even get consistent play from his players has final say so?? Well then if that is the case then that also makes my thoughts and comments about allowing his son more lead way to be more credible. Hell if you give a ST coach final say so over things than I know good and damn well a son would also get final say on things......WOW that is a damning statement if that is what in fact was said and not misunderstood..........................

his son is leading a bomb offense... Danny Smith is not.

His son has had two offseasons to get players and impliment a system...

Danny Smith has been here for what? 7 years?