Chalk Talk Discussion Topic: What's the issue with our defense?

[darrelgreenie]

I watched yesterday as the DB's again on short yardage third downs played beyond the first down marker maybe six to 8 yards off trying to prevent the homerun while giving up the first down. Trying to count on the space to allow closing on the ball? This has never seemed to work for us as teams just run screens, WR screens or slants of some kind and end up hitting the seam for not only the first down but bigger gains. In your opinion KDawg and DG is that due to the knowledge that our personnel is not competent or is it just a bend don't break mentality?

Interesting I wonder what the distance to go was on those 3rd downs?
But to answer your question I thinks its all situationually dependent. But on the whole I think the defense has moved to more of bend but don't break mentality and I agree with it.
But, I don't think we should be giving a cushion at the snap unless its a disguise coverage with LBs or Ss buzzing the underneath zones or the cushion is because of a pressure package in a 3rd and long situation.

[SWFLSkins]

Interesting I wonder what the distance to go was on those 3rd downs?
But to answer your question I thinks its all situationually dependent. But on the whole I think the defense has moved to more of bend but don't break mentality and I agree with it.
But, I don't think we should be giving a cushion at the snap unless its a disguise coverage with LBs or Ss buzzing the underneath zones or the cushion is because of a pressure package in a 3rd and long situation.

If I re-watch the game soon I will stop action and screen shot a pic to provide an example of what the alignment was, I am curious as hell what the opinion is of those in the know. I only played HS DB and safety, but we did nothing fancy really beyond zone and man, rolling coverages to the other teams strong side.

---------- Post added October-15th-2012 at 11:59 AM ----------

Interesting I wonder what the distance to go was on those 3rd downs?
But to answer your question I thinks its all situationually dependent. But on the whole I think the defense has moved to more of bend but don't break mentality and I agree with it.
But, I don't think we should be giving a cushion at the snap unless its a disguise coverage with LBs or Ss buzzing the underneath zones or the cushion is because of a pressure package in a 3rd and long situation.

And I guess that is where I am having difficulty understanding applying pressure up front but laying off the pressure in the backfield, to me the two go hand in hand. If it is third and medium, 4-8 yards why not press in the backfield knowing that the throw with the pressure is going to be hurried. I know Greg Williams got blasted for gambling and giving up the big play now and again, but it also seemed to force more INT's especially with a younger QB like yesterday. I think KDawg kind of answered that though, it probably is a personnel based decision.

[2v2nv]

I have to say that I don't know much about the scheming side of football so I'm not a really smart person to be commenting on this. However, I'm going to give my opinion though it may be dumb.

It's so obvious that our D is lacking in the secondary. The only thing that I despise about Haz is that he seems to ignore this. It seems like we put one defender on grade A WR's in crucial moments. We also blitz at weird times. Kerrigan is almost constantly running at the QB which works 90% of the time but it would be nice to see him drop back into coverage on crucial downs. I am getting super tired of that late blitz to the middle. If its not Fletcher, Kerrigan, or Hall, blitzing doesn't seem to be useless. Gomes almost looks like Banks out there. He just doesn't seem to have a lot of weight and muscle to break tackles yet we started out blitzing with him a lot.

When do we get Merriweather back and will it make a big difference at all? Also, what is his injury?

[Oldfan]

I use the traffic light analogy to explain my idea of football risk management. Red, amber, green...there are times to to take risks and times to back off. Haslett is on green full-time, taking unnecessary risks. He's living on the edge. It's like an offense throwing Hail Marys with a late lead. Now this approach to risk will produce good stats like that +9 on the turnover differential, but when facing playoff caliber offenses, he will more than likely get his ass handed to him.

However, Mike Shanahan is allowing it, so he's to blame.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

One aspect of our defense (sorry, I am not great with the Xs and Os) that has seemed to regress horribly is the tackling. Too many times it appears that the positioning of our players should result in a short to moderate gain but somehow the offense picks up additional yardage. I have no idea what the concept of the scheme is, but I infer from watching that we should be winning more one on one battles. Receivers catch the ball and shed tackles or plow through guys to gain first downs. Running backs wiggle out of traffic and gain 7 yards instead of 2.

Maybe it's our new personnel in the secondary? Maybe it's coaching? Maybe it's the fact that guys are out of position and can only make weak diving attempts? But does anyone else notice that we seem to be a horrible tackling team compared to previous years?

[Koolblue13]

I'd say the most glaring problem is certainly talent in the secondary. We brought in 3 safeties and a CB from free agency and drafted two more CBs and a safety and none of it has panned out for us at all. Hall is playing great football this year without much help at all.

If Merriweather can come back, I think there will be a drastic difference in the play of our secondary. I had such high hopes.

Josh Wilson is not playing well at all this year. He could usually make up for his lack of help against the ground game with his coverage skills, but the guy is slightly bigger than Banks and doesn't seem to be able to cover anymore either.

[Oldfan]

One aspect of our defense (sorry, I am not great with the Xs and Os) that has seemed to regress horribly is the tackling. Too many times it appears that the positioning of our players should result in a short to moderate gain but somehow the offense picks up additional yardage. I have no idea what the concept of the scheme is, but I infer from watching that we should be winning more one on one battles. Receivers catch the ball and shed tackles or plow through guys to gain first downs. Running backs wiggle out of traffic and gain 7 yards instead of 2.

Maybe it's our new personnel in the secondary? Maybe it's coaching? Maybe it's the fact that guys are out of position and can only make weak diving attempts? But does anyone else notice that we seem to be a horrible tackling team compared to previous years?

I think poor tackling traces back to a low IQ. Intelligent defenders have the physics of leverage and the geometry of pursuit angles hard-wired into their brains. Great tacklers are born with that ability.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think poor tackling traces back to a low IQ. Intelligent defenders have the physics of leverage and the geometry of pursuit angles hard-wired into their brains. Great tacklers are born with that ability.

That makes sense. I'd have to re-watch to figure out if some of the missed tackles are coming from guys who have traditionally been solid in the past. If they are being committed by new players, your theory might be right.

[Hitman21ST]

I use the traffic light analogy to explain my idea of football risk management. Red, amber, green...there are times to to take risks and times to back off. Haslett is on green full-time, taking unnecessary risks. He's living on the edge. It's like an offense throwing Hail Marys with a late lead. Now this approach to risk will produce good stats like that +9 on the turnover differential, but when facing playoff caliber offenses, he will more than likely get his ass handed to him.

We've faced playoff cliber offenses in the Saints and Falcons, and neither time had our ass handed to us. Defense played extremely well in both games.

However, Mike Shanahan is allowing it, so he's to blame.

Was that last piece necessary?

[sportjunkie07]

we are getting burned in pass coverage. that is the affect of:
1.) secondary talent
2.) pass rushing ability
3.) scheme

the biggest issue is that we lack athletic ability in the secondary. the offensive players we are facing are faster, taller, and stronger than our secondary. when a qb is on, he is able to take advantage these mismatches. i.e. the step created from slant route via a slightly faster and stronger wr (compared to the db) or a fade route to a 6'6" receiver over a 5'9" josh wilson.

hakeem nicks- 6' 1" 208 lbs
victor cruz- 6" 0" 204 lbs
rueben randle- 6' 3" 208 lbs
domenik hixon- 6' 2" 197 lbs
ramses barden- 6'6" 224 lbs
martellus bennett- 6' 6" 265 lbs

Deangelo Hall - 5'10" 193 lbs
Josh Wilson- 5'9" 188 lbs
Richard Crawford- 5'11" 188 lbs
Dejon Gomes- 6'0" 201 lbs
Reed Doughty- 6'1" 206 lbs
Madieu Williams6'1" 209 lbs

it's not rocket science. if an offensive coordinator and qb can exploit these mismatches, the chances of success per play are not in the defenses' favor. couple that with officiating favoring the offensive, and the effect is moreso.

this was exemplified perfectly in the bengals game. there were many completions to green where hall had nearly perfect coverage, but green was just too athletic.

finding more athletic secondary players is not possible until next year via draft and free agency, therefore we must seek to improve our pass rush. doing so will be difficult considering we lost one of our best pass rushers and a solid interior lineman early on.

the best bet for improving our defense is to outscheme the opposing team's offense. throw blitzes in to disrupt timing and seek to prevent mismatches. (safety should not be covering a fast receiver 1 on 1, wilson will need help over the top if he's covering a 6'6" receiver in the red zone, etc.)

^is more easily said than done. while i do think our scheming will be able to confuse or slow down offenses with young qb's, veteran qb's should be able to continue to dissect our defense and find the mismatch. we'll just have to hope that they are off said sunday and that we can force turnovers and keep our own offense going.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Isn't the D like 3rd in the league in forcing turnovers? That's what I want out of a defense....

I know they've also scored like 4 TD's through 6 games....

I don't care about yards per game nearly as much as I care about those top two.

[Hitman21ST]

I know they've also scored like 4 TD's through 6 games....

4 TDs, 1 that should have been (Wilson's fumble recovery TD that wasn't), 1 INT that got returned to the 3 (Gomes against the Saints), and 1 fumble recovery to the 5 (Alexander). We very well could have 7 defensive TDs.

[rk3025]

I still miss Greg

[Oldfan]

That makes sense. I'd have to re-watch to figure out if some of the missed tackles are coming from guys who have traditionally been solid in the past. If they are being committed by new players, your theory might be right.

My theory applies to the offense as well. A few years back, Stephon Heyer was a rookie touted for his great potential to someday start at tackle. When I read later that coaches were trying to teach him how to exert more leverage, I formed the opinion that he would never make it.

I think teaching leverage is something like teaching a math concept to someone lacking the ability to understand it.

[KDawg]

Isn't the D like 3rd in the league in forcing turnovers? That's what I want out of a defense....

I know they've also scored like 4 TD's through 6 games....

I don't care about yards per game nearly as much as I care about those top two.

I don't think a single person has said yards per game is a statistic that is really worth anything. I merely talked about how our defense has gotten torched through the air and used yards as an example.

The important statistics for a defense, in my opinion are: Red Zone conversion percentage, third down conversion percentage, turnovers.