Chalk Talk Discussion Topic: What's the issue with our defense?

[rk3025]

Has any other DC lost draft choices like Landry,Rogers and Taylor plus Jackson and Merriweather not playing when planned?

[Lavarleap56]

Isn't the D like 3rd in the league in forcing turnovers? That's what I want out of a defense....

I know they've also scored like 4 TD's through 6 games....

I don't care about yards per game nearly as much as I care about those top two.

So you want a defense that only scores TDs? Wake up..

Teams that score a defensive TD usually win 88% of the time which is a plus. This teams defense has been so bad that they were in the 12% in 3 different games (Rams,Bengals,Falcons). Defensive touchdowns are nice but good defense needs to go along with them to bring success. Redskins cant go around giving up 30 and taking 6 back and expect to win.

---------- Post added October-15th-2012 at 10:21 PM ----------

Everyone complaining about the secondary when it is basically the same secondary as last season.. The defense has some areas that need a talent upgrade BUT there is enough there to run a solid 3-4. People should learn about the 3-4 before complaining about why the corners are playing so far off at times. Starts with Scheme and Coaching in all honesty.

---------- Post added October-15th-2012 at 10:22 PM ----------

Has any other DC lost draft choices like Landry,Rogers and Taylor plus Jackson and Merriweather not playing when planned?

First of all Taylor never played for Haslett..

Laron was only healthy for the first 8 games in 2010. 2011 Laron gave this team one good half his first game back against Dallas then regressed every quarter on the field until he went to IR. Rogers didn't want to play here and refused to get his eyes check to facilitate that move.

[rk3025]

Normally your top draft choices are an asset to the team for a number of years and a DC has a base of players to work with in his system for the secondary

[Mahons21]

Regarding where the corners play off man

What happened to the new techniques/coverage schemes Raheem was teaching them? Are they not being implemented? Or are they not successful? They were the talk of the town this past offseason and after game 1.

Furthermore if coaching is the issue, why isn't Raheem coaching up what talent he does have to work with?

[KDawg]

Normally your top draft choices are an asset to the team for a number of years and a DC has a base of players to work with in his system for the secondary

Sean Taylor doesn't even remotely figure into that conversation.

The team didn't resign Rogers or Landry, and we have no idea if that was by design per Haslett or someone else's call.

So, what's the point you're attempting to make?

[Lavarleap56]

Regarding where the corners play off man

What happened to the new techniques/coverage schemes Raheem was teaching them? Are they not being implemented? Or are they not successful? They were the talk of the town this past offseason and after game 1.

Furthermore if coaching is the issue, why isn't Raheem coaching up what talent he does have to work with?

Raheem is fine.. Main problem is not the secondary.

---------- Post added October-16th-2012 at 12:28 AM ----------

Sean Taylor doesn't even remotely figure into that conversation.

The team didn't resign Rogers or Landry, and we have no idea if that was by design per Haslett or someone else's call.

So, what's the point you're attempting to make?

Well we do have a idea so lets not speak for everyone. In Larons case he didn't want to be here anymore ( as I said for the past 4 years ). The team was not interested in giving him a long term deal without surgery, Laron would not sign a multi bonus based deal like he did with the jets to stay in dc. Carlos in a similar situation and did not want to stay in dc. Carlos had some money issues and needed to try to cash in and that money was not coming from the Redskins.

---------- Post added October-16th-2012 at 12:30 AM ----------

Sean Taylor doesn't even remotely figure into that conversation.

The team didn't resign Rogers or Landry, and we have no idea if that was by design per Haslett or someone else's call.

So, what's the point you're attempting to make?

Well we do have a idea so lets not speak for everyone. In Larons case he didn't want to be here anymore ( as I said for the past 4 years ). The team was not interested in giving him a long term deal without surgery, Laron would not sign a multi bonus based deal like he did with the jets to stay in dc. Carlos in a similar situation and did not want to stay in dc. Carlos had some money issues and needed to try to cash in and that money was not coming from the Redskins.

[NLC1054]

Regarding where the corners play off man

What happened to the new techniques/coverage schemes Raheem was teaching them? Are they not being implemented? Or are they not successful? They were the talk of the town this past offseason and after game 1.

Furthermore if coaching is the issue, why isn't Raheem coaching up what talent he does have to work with?

Haslett calls the plays.

The corners aren't the problem; Josh Wilson and DeAngelo Hall have been pretty damn good in coverage.

The problems have largely been bad safety play, and that happens when you have bad safeties.

[KDawg]

Well we do have a idea so lets not speak for everyone.

Apparently, you completely misread my post. I said we don't know if it was Haslett's decision. Landry didn't want to be here... But did Haslett want him here anyways? And don't worry. I know you know everything about the Redskins. I'd never speak for you.

[sonofbutz]

We just need to be more agressive

[Lavarleap56]

Apparently, you completely misread my post. I said we don't know if it was Haslett's decision. Landry didn't want to be here... But did Haslett want him here anyways? And don't worry. I know you know everything about the Redskins. I'd never speak for you.

Don't know everything.. The Los and Landry info is and has been all over this board for years. Haslett and the team wanted Laron in DC. Laron had two options to stay in DC and choose none of them obviously.

---------- Post added October-16th-2012 at 03:55 AM ----------

Haslett calls the plays.

The corners aren't the problem; Josh Wilson and DeAngelo Hall have been pretty damn good in coverage.

The problems have largely been bad safety play, and that happens when you have bad safeties.

I'm going to go back through all the defensive film to reassure what i'm seeing.Redskins safety play does leave a lot to be desired.

[Lavarleap56]

I also find it tough to pay any mind to people complaining about the secondary who doesn't know terms like.. Off,Squat,Sink,Buster,Tight 1/2,Normal 1/2,Inside Press etc. The better the play of your front 7 is the easier it is on your secondary. You want to minimize mistakes on the backend then pressure the QB and don't give him all day to throw. Simple as that.

[RedskinParadigm]

Everyone complaining about the secondary when it is basically the same secondary as last season..

You may be correct about the secondary not being the main problem, but this statement is simply not true. OJ Atogwe played 13 games last season, Laron Landry played 8, Kevin Barnes was the nickelback for most of the season and Byron Westbrook was usually the dimeback (even though they flipped toward the end of the season). Not one of those guys are still with the team. The secondary also has a new coach. This secondary is considerably different than last year, particularly when teams are spreading the Redskins out, which is happening often.

[NLC1054]

You may be correct about the secondary not being the main problem, but this statement is simply not true. OJ Atogwe played 13 games last season, Laron Landry played 8, Kevin Barnes was the nickelback for most of the season and Byron Westbrook was usually the dimeback (even though they flipped toward the end of the season). Not one of those guys are still with the team. The secondary also has a new coach. This secondary is considerably different than last year, particularly when teams are spreading the Redskins out, which is happening often.

I think he meant in terms of relative quality the defense isn't that much different.

[RedskinParadigm]

I think he meant in terms of relative quality the defense isn't that much different.

Fair enough, I can agree with that (or at least that it's comparable).

What I'd be interested in seeing is whether the Haslett is calling plays differently this year than he did in 2011. LL did a great post detailing the differences between the LeBeau defense and the Haslett defense, but that mainly pertains to how the defense is performing this year. The 2011 defense (I think most of us can agree) was better than what we've seen thus far, so what is Haslett doing differently right now as compared to last year? Why were we (relatively) good last year but, at times, painfully awful this season? What changed, if it's not primarily a personnel issue with the secondary? Is the Orakpo/Carriker loss at the root of all of this (remember, the defense did actually play well in week 1 when both were healthy)?

Sorry, just kind of thinking out loud.

[NLC1054]

Fair enough, I can agree with that (or at least that it's comparable).

What I'd be interested in seeing is whether the Haslett is calling plays differently this year than he did in 2011. LL did a great post detailing the differences between the LeBeau defense and the Haslett defense, but that mainly pertains to how the defense is performing this year. The 2011 defense (I think most of us can agree) was better than what we've seen thus far, so what is Haslett doing differently right now as compared to last year? Why were we (relatively) good last year but, at times, painfully awful this season? What changed, if it's not primarily a personnel issue?

Only thing we can figure is that Lou Spanos left.

Lou came from Pittsburgh. He understood the nuances of the defense and he helped us implement it. I honest feel like Lou would probably be the defensive coordinator right now if he hadn't gotten the D-coordinator job at UCLA like a week before Haslett opened his big mouth about our offseason plans.

When you look at our entire defensive staff, it's almost completely made up of guys who are 4-3 guys. What I see most weeks is basically "The Complete Idiots Guide to Running a 3-4 Defense"; Haslett runs the same blitz concepts over and over and over again, because I don't think he really "gets" the 3-4. Not because he's dumb, but he's just not a 3-4 guy.

This week was much better, for the most part. The kitchen sink approach might be the best thing for us right now.