For Midget Fans: Why John Mara cheated

[Painkiller]

so basically, they just plundered the Redskins and Cowboys with no justification whatsoever in an effort to get the cap back up. The "spirit of the salary cap" bull **** was just to try to spin the whole thing into something it wasn't. They needed money, the Cowboys and Redskins had plenty. The rest is history.

Nice

When I hear terms like "gentleman's club" and "fraternity" with regards to the NFL owners I always think of this scene from Titanic.

"off they go into a cloud of smoke to congratulate each other on being masters of the universe"

[greenspandan]

edit: forget it.

[BiGdiCeBuDdHa]

Excellent, excellent posts, tshile.

Whether I agree with you or not, you laid out your argument rationally and seemingly without bias. It was refreshing.

[tshile]

Excellent, excellent posts, tshile.

Whether I agree with you or not, you laid out your argument rationally and seemingly without bias. It was refreshing.

Hah! Thanks, happy someone enjoyed them

[BornToHail]

Hah! Thanks, happy someone enjoyed them

I enjoyed seeing two sides with cogent points to make. I happen to disagree with you, but agree with the above poster in how fair it was.

[thesubmittedone]

My only question is why haven't the Redskins continued to pursue this via more mediation or courts?

I had my pitchfork and torch in hand ready to March to New York, but after thinking about it, the 'skins and 'boys silence on the matter has raised my suspicion towards the two clubs.

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone has this sentiment. This kind of stuff happens in business everyday. Sometimes you get wronged and you just have to bite your tongue in order to keep mutual relations on a level that makes it possible to continue doing business in the future.

But even putting business aside, you've never been slighted by your peers or family members and just had to shut up about it for the sake of not alienating yourself from everyone? And, if not, you don't think that there's a huge possibility our organization doesn't want to burn too many bridges in this process which would lead to more hardships when trying to make deals?

Why would the first thing be, "after thinking about it", that we some how did wrong here? To me, it's painfully obvious we figured we would actually abide by the previous CBA and use it to our advantage considering it would be next to impossible for the league to do anything about it without showing collusion. To our shock and dismay, the league thinks it's so bullet proof they did it anyway by strong-arming the NFLPA. Now they have to deal with being sued over it, so we'll see if they were right. But it goes to show that the only mistake we made as an organization was following the rules and thinking the league wouldn't openly break them, even with their so called "warnings".

What makes it even worse is that other teams essentially did the same thing but in a slightly different way and got away with it. We always have to have differing opinions on here, but in this case I just can't see how

[BiGdiCeBuDdHa]

Hah! Thanks, happy someone enjoyed them

No problem. It was a refreshing take from the "eff Mara, we got screwed crowd.". John Mara was nothing more than a mouthpiece for the other 27 or 28 owners that signed off on this. Nothing more. He himself didn't levy the penalty. The thinking on this board that he did is borderline absurd and not based in reality.

[SkinsHokieFan]

No problem. It was a refreshing take from the "eff Mara, we got screwed crowd.". John Mara was nothing more than a mouthpiece for the other 27 or 28 owners that signed off on this. Nothing more. He himself didn't levy the penalty. The thinking on this board that he did is borderline absurd and not based in reality.

Wrong.

Mara was head of the NFL Management Council, which laid out the recommendation for the penalties to the commissioner (including loss of draft picks) WITHOUT consulting with one key member of the management council: Jerry Jones

Tshile has proven over and over in this thread to be incorrect and has failed to grasp the facts as they occured.

[BiGdiCeBuDdHa]

Wrong.

Mara was head of the NFL Management Council, which laid out the recommendation for the penalties to the commissioner (including loss of draft picks) WITHOUT consulting with one key member of the management council: Jerry Jones

Tshile has proven over and over in this thread to be incorrect and has failed to grasp the facts as they occured.

Well, I think you're wrong. That doesn't make either of us right. You know what opinions are like....

---------- Post added October-17th-2012 at 04:02 PM ----------

Let me ask all of you this....

Let's say the owners warned everybody beforehand that if they dumped dead money there would be consequences. Let's say, hypothetically, that the Redskins dumped the money anyways. Now, let's say the league didn't do anything about it. Hypothetically of course, okay?

So... The CBA is agreed upon and the owners can't punish the Redskins. Do you think the Redskins gained an advantage over all of the other teams in the league that honored the agreement. If yes, do you think they gained it fairly? And finally, if you were one of the 31 other teams' fans, would you be annoyed that they gained that advantage, especially if it freed them up the space to sign a player you wanted that they outbid you for?

Just answer those questions honestly. That's what I did. I definately see both sides, like tshile.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Well, I think you're wrong. That doesn't make either of us right. You know what opinions are like....

---------- Post added October-17th-2012 at 04:02 PM ----------

Let me ask all of you this....

Let's say the owners warned everybody beforehand that if they dumped dead money there would be consequences. Let's say, hypothetically, that the Redskins dumped the money anyways. Now, let's say the league didn't do anything about it. Hypothetically of course, okay?

So... The CBA is agreed upon and the owners can't punish the Redskins. Do you think the Redskins gained an advantage over all of the other teams in the league that honored the agreement. If yes, do you think they gained it fairly? And finally, if you were one of the 31 other teams' fans, would you be annoyed that they gained that advantage, especially if it freed them up the space to sign a player you wanted that they outbid you for?

Just answer those questions honestly. That's what I did. I definately see both sides, like tshile.

Read the first post in this thread. I am the correct one here who has facts on his side. There indeed are 2 sides to this debate. The Redskins and Cowboys side (which is correct) and the incorrect side of John Mara is a cheater

There are rules and "feelings and fairness" The Redskins and Cowboys played by the rules. Its that simple

Tshile is trying to use "context"

There is all the context you need

It’s a strong presentation of facts and law. But, as the league seems to do from time to time, it brief goes one step too far, at page 13: “There were no rules or agreements broken by the Redskins, the Cowboys, or any other Club with respect to Player Contracts executed in the 2010 League Year.”

That assertion is backed by a sworn affidavit from Peter Ruocco, senior V.P. of labor relations for the NFL Management Council, who says at paragraph 12 that “[n]o rules or agreements were broken” by the Redskins or Cowboys, even though total salary cap penalties of $46 million were imposed against the two teams. At paragraph 3 of the affidavit, Ruocco denies that he told NFLPA general counsel Tom DePaso in March 2012 “that the League believed that the Redskins and Cowboys had secured an unfair advantage over Clubs that committed lesser amounts to players in 2010 than did those Clubs.”

Ruocco may not have said it privately to DePaso in March 2012, but Giants co-owner John Mara said it publicly that same month.

“I thought the penalties imposed were proper,” Mara said. “What they did was in violation of the spirit of the salary cap. They attempted to take advantage of a one-year loophole, and quite frankly, I think they’re lucky they didn’t lose draft picks. . . . They attempted to take advantage of it knowing full well there would be consequences.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...o-edged-sword/

If you can link me to something that shows my opinion is contrary to fact, I'll be happy to read it

But you and Tshile can't

[BiGdiCeBuDdHa]

I didn't ask what the rule said, I ask what you would think if you were a fan of another team.

I'm just not trying to view it as shortsighted as most here. I'm trying to view it from all of the other teams perspective. You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I'm just not trying to view it as shortsided as most here. I'm trying to view it from all of the other teams perspective. You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

You aren't entitled to your facts though.

The NFL, and the NFL Management Council were wrong on this. They colluded (which is illegal) and cheated

As far as I am concerned, I put Mara in the same category as guys like Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds. However, unlike those 2, he had a direct impact on the ability of 2 of his division rivals to field competitive teams.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I didn't ask what the rule said, I ask what you would think if you were a fan of another team.

I'm just not trying to view it as shortsighted as most here. I'm trying to view it from all of the other teams perspective. You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

You're forgetting that all the other teams AGREED to the uncapped year to. Its not like the Cowboys and Redskins sprung it on the other 30 teams. They all agreed to it, in writing. Then when that year came, a couple of the teams said, hey we don't like what we agreed to anymore and you have to do this. Well, the Cowboys and Redskins (and other teams not in the same division as the Giants) said, "no, we are going to go by the uncapped year that you agreed to with us." Its that simple.

[BiGdiCeBuDdHa]

You aren't entitled to your facts though.

The NFL, and the NFL Management Council were wrong on this. They colluded (which is illegal) and cheated

As far as I am concerned, I put Mara in the same category as guys like Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds. However, unlike those 2, he had a direct impact on the ability of 2 of his division rivals to field competitive teams.

Haha, okay, thanks for letting me know what I am and am not entitled to. Completely rational.

Yeoman's work, tshile.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Haha, okay, thanks for letting me know what I am and am not entitled to. Completely rational.

Yeoman's work, tshile.

You have presented no facts which counter any of mine. When you do, come join us again