HTTR24-7:Coordinated Chaos- Mike Shanahans History With Defensive Coordinators

[SkinsFanMania]

I'd like to see a Mike Nolan return personally. I don't think he and Snyder got along though...

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

[Chump Bailey]

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

IIRC his recent teams all have had excellent D's. He is Atlanta's coordinator presently.

[Lavarleap56]

Redskins currently rank 22nd team Defense DVOA.

Rex Ryan doesn't appear to be coping well with his injuries. Same can be said for Dean Pees in Baltimore, and Dick LeBeau in PIT.

PIT ranks 20th in DVOA, and BAL ranks 24th, despite both teams still having more talent with their injuries in comparison with the Redskins.

All that looks good but this 2012 defense has given up the 6th highest point total in the Redskins 80 year history. This defense is being helped a lot by a ball control offense that has tried to eat a ton of clock to keep them off the field.

[authentic]

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

I can't front, i don't want him either.. too many scars from the Norv era that i may never get over...

[Skinsinparadise]

Let me stop this real quick..Raheem is still very much in play to replace Haslett. My personal preference would be they go with a guy that came up in the 3/4.

If its Raheem interesting thing about it is its his unit that's being torched -- granted he's working with bad talent but the secondary was better last year. wonder about Ron Rivera if he's fired. Carolina's defense is decent.

[Oldfan]

All that looks good but this 2012 defense has given up the 6th highest point total in the Redskins 80 year history. This defense is being helped a lot by a ball control offense that has tried to eat a ton of clock to keep them off the field.

A lot of ball control? We are 29th in third down conversion percentage.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...conversion-pct

[Diss]

If its Raheem interesting thing about it is its his unit that's being torched -- granted he's working with bad talent but the secondary was better last year. wonder about Ron Rivera if he's fired. Carolina's defense is decent.

This is what I don't get. Everyone keeps talking about Raheem getting promoted. Why? His secondary is playing horribly. How much of that should fall at Morris' feet vs. Haslett's? This is a good article, though. I thought Haslett's record was better last year than what it was. His record is really pretty sad. Muck like Mike's, ironically enough. Eventually, you are judged by your record and your record alone, injuries and other challenges be damned.

[skins island connection]

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over?

Either way, Shanahan is ulimately responsible. We like to ***** about defensive calls that give up big plays and whatnot, but why doesn't Shanahan sit Haslett down and tell him what he wants called at certain times? You think they dont talk about stuff like that? In your job if you make a mistake doesn't the boss come tell you what you did wrong so you don't do it again? We act as though the coordinators are their own bosses--i don't believe that to be true.

Like I said, I'm not any huge supporter of Haslett. But I find it funny that there are so many who assume somebody else will provide some type of miraculous fix. And what about continuity? Haven't we learned through the Snyder area that change isn't always good???

Actually Mike HAS left the defense up to Haslett; and this is the product he's putting on the field.

Not to mention Haslett's history of poor teams/defenses that he's been a part of. If it were 1 or 2 teams where Haslett didn't do well, then I would have a different opinion, but god he's had 10 different positions on alot of different teams, all within the last 12 or so years, and on every one the team or defense which he led was always degressing, if not bottoming out. He couldn't even hold the St. Louis job for more than 2 years before being booted.

Its partly to do with players lack of talent, but more glaring is the bland predictability of his defense which are being pointed out by OPPOSING OFFENSES! That doesn't raise question to his ability, or lack thereof?

[Mahons21]

A lot of ball control? We are 29th in third down conversion percentage.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...conversion-pct

Not to mention when using as advanced metric like dvoa, the impact a ball control offense has on defensive statistics is greatly reduced.

Ironically he cites total points stat, which is heavily influenced by the offense, and their inability to play ball control. Which hes going to disagree with no matter what stat you show him.

[skins island connection]

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over?

Either way, Shanahan is ulimately responsible. We like to ***** about defensive calls that give up big plays and whatnot, but why doesn't Shanahan sit Haslett down and tell him what he wants called at certain times? You think they dont talk about stuff like that? In your job if you make a mistake doesn't the boss come tell you what you did wrong so you don't do it again? We act as though the coordinators are their own bosses--i don't believe that to be true.

Like I said, I'm not any huge supporter of Haslett. But I find it funny that there are so many who assume somebody else will provide some type of miraculous fix. And what about continuity? Haven't we learned through the Snyder area that change isn't always good???

I think I have an analogy which may paint a better picture, being that I am very anal..lol.

Say you have a cousin who is a meth head; he's stayed with 5-6 other relatives, and they've all kicked him out because he was stealing from them to supply his habit.
You take him in, hoping you can change him.
Soon, things begin disappearing from your house; driver one week, fishing rod the next, and so on. Instead of addressing the problem head-on, you have that hope things will change, so instead of kicking him out, you buy a safe to put your valuables in.
More things, less valuable keep disappearing, so you keep putting more and more items in the safe.
At what point do you draw the line; after everything you own is in the pawn shop? Do you continue to be nieve about whats happening, or do you say enough is enough, you have to leave?
*My apologies to anyone who is, or is dealing with a problem of this nature; its a nasty habit, and yes my mind does function differently at times from the norm...

[DogofWar1]

I would say Raheem gets more of a pass than Haslett in terms of their unit.

Raheem has no safeties to speak of, they're all pretty much guys who would be lucky to be on any other team, with maybe the exception of Meriweather, who's been injured. Seriously, we've been trying to get rid of Doughty for like, 3 years, and can't do it because of lack of talent on the back end. Beyond that, he has only two starter level CBs, and one of those (Hall) is very debatable. Basically, of all his players, the only one on the field right now I'd have consistent faith in would be Wilson.

We also have to remember that Morris doesn't call the coverages and plays, Haslett does. Haslett can make the argument he's working with a lack of talent, but he's got to take responsibility for play calling problems, which we do have.

Ron Rivera would be an interesting pickup if he's fired, but he only ran the 3-4 for a couple years. Even when he became HC, he didn't stick with it, he switched back to the 4-3, so I'm not sure how well he'd do here. Good 3-4 coaches seem to be few and far between atm.

[Lavarleap56]

A lot of ball control? We are 29th in third down conversion percentage.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...conversion-pct

Yeah it's no secret we are not a good third down team. That doesn't mean we don't try to take air out of the football to keep our defense off the field.
I'm also not sure if your third down conversion rate is a accurate judge. The team does very well on 1st and 2nd down plus goes for it on 4th down a lot as well.

The team also #1 in fewest punts offensively while the defense is 28th in fewest punts forced.

[Oldfan]

Not to mention when using as advanced metric like dvoa, the impact a ball control offense has on defensive statistics is greatly reduced.

Ironically he cites total points stat, which is heavily influenced by the offense, and their inability to play ball control. Which hes going to disagree with no matter what stat you show him.

You know how to find them as easily as I can so I won't link them...

I was looking at the drive stats on FO yesterday. Our defense ranks about fifth in takeaways, fumbles caused and interceptions per drive but like 29th on yards and points. This indicates over-aggressiveness which could come from Shanahan's orders being followed by Haslett. The best explanation is that the defense is getting burned on blitzes too often.

[Lavarleap56]

Not to mention when using as advanced metric like dvoa, the impact a ball control offense has on defensive statistics is greatly reduced.

Ironically he cites total points stat, which is heavily influenced by the offense, and their inability to play ball control. Which hes going to disagree with no matter what stat you show him.

That's not true, I actually encourage and love a good football discussion. You linked football outsiders earlier having the D ranked #22 but that's. Tough sell even if I do like their stuff. Pro football focus might be a more realistic ranking at #27 or #28 I believe. Football outsiders had this pass defense ranked 19th which I find hard to support based on the fact they are on pace to allow the most passing yads in NFL history.

Yes I did bring up points as well.. Isn't the defenses goal to limit the amount of points a opponent the scores? Don't we judge defenses on YPG, PPG, Sacks, Turnovers..

[Oldfan]

Yeah it's no secret we are not a good third down team. That doesn't mean we don't try to take air out of the football to keep our defense off the field.
I'm also not sure if your third down conversion rate is a accurate judge. The team does very well on 1st and 2nd down plus goes for it on 4th down a lot as well.

The team also #1 in fewest punts offensively while the defense is 28th in fewest punts forced.

There can't be very many fourth down conversions. I don't know how a team can be doing well at ball control and be 29th in third-down conversions.