HTTR24-7:Coordinated Chaos- Mike Shanahans History With Defensive Coordinators

[Lavarleap56]

I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that every defense isn't coached that way because Bill Bellichik and Jim Schwartz understand statistics. They both majored in Economics. Schwartz has been quoted on Football Outsiders about the deceptive nature of the NFL's yardage stats.

Your best strategy for leading the NFL in the lowest PPG and your best strategy for leading the league in lowest YPG would be in direct conflict.

Your best strategy for leading the league in takeaways would cause you to be over-agressive. Good offenses burn over-aggressive defenses. You would be giving your opponent a better opportunity to come from behind and beat you.

If our defense is being coached that way, we have discovered part of the problem.

The philosophy is not a problem for Pittsburgh and and not a problem for us.

[SkinsFTW]

Like most teams, defenses are usually composed of guys; not guys who are going to make the Pro Bowl, not guys who dominate, not All Pro's. Just guys. Losing Rak and Carriker hurts, and we could all said here all day and talk about what might've been if we had taken J.J Watt instead of Ryan Kerrigan. The fact is, this is the hand that we've been dealt; we're dealing with some crappy injuries, but ever football team deals with crappy injuries. The good teams and good coaches overcome. They find a way to make it work.

Exactly and you'd think that by the 3rd year Haslett would have enough of his own "guys" that 2-3 injuries don't blow the whole thing up and turn what should have been a top 15 defense at worst into the 30-32th best in the league. We didn't lose any All Pro's, we lost a good LB and a decent replaceable level DE. Besides that we lost some depth safeties that other teams didn't even want.

[Oldfan]

The philosophy is not a problem for Pittsburgh and and not a problem for us.

Don't know about that.

With a late lead, our boys were over-aggressive against the Giants and Victor Cruz. We got burned. That didn't hurt?

Last season, with a late lead, Haslett was over-aggressive with an all-out blitz against the Cowboys. Romo and Dez Bryant burned us. How did that feel?

Of course, if those gambles had been successful, there's a good chance the defense would have added to their takeaway stat.

[SkinsGuy]

On last weeks’ game against the Pittsburgh Steelers:

Haslett- “Well, obviously we weren’t pleased with the way we played and the outcome. That’s something we’ll deal with every week.”

Good to know that they wont be pleased with how they play and the outcome of every game for the rest of the year.... Hate that quote

That quote is so funny.

Haslett obviously didn't mean it the way it came out, but it is hilarious none the less.

[Lavarleap56]

Don't know about that. With a late lead, our boys were over-aggressive against the Giants and Victor Cruz. That didn't hurt?

Last season, with a late lead, Haslett was over-aggressive with an all-out blitz against the Cowboys. Romo and Dez Bryant burned us. How did that feel?

Of course, if those gambles had been successful, there's a good chance the defense would added to their takeaway stat.

Well weren't over aggressive against the Giants. The Cruz TD is one of the few calls I don't even blame Haslett for. Predictable yes but having a double on their most dangerous WR in crunch time is not a bad call. Think the world knows Williams just played it wrong. Haslett's over aggressiveness has caused us to give up leads in the past. That over aggressiveness is his play calling issue which is personal preference not necessarily scheme base.

You are assuming that over aggressiveness would add to the takeaway stat.. Cover 0 blitz has maybe brought us 1-3 turnovers 40 games.

[Oldfan]

...Haslett's over aggressiveness has caused us to give up leads in the past. That over aggressiveness is his play calling issue which is personal preference not necessarily scheme base...

His personal preference? You mean Mike leaves it up to him?

You are assuming that over aggressiveness would add to the takeaway stat.. Cover 0 blitz has maybe brought us 1-3 turnovers 40 games.

If the yield is that low, we shouldn't be doing it at all. Each takeaway is worth an average of four points. Each touchdown is worth seven. The Bengals TD on the first play of their game against zero blitz was minus 7. If we had only three takeaways that's +12. Just two TDs (-14) scored against us in 40 games would give us a negative return on zero blitz.

[Skinsinparadise]

I guess finding another OC would be the best way to find a new DL coach and LBs coach.
I think those 2 coaches aren't holding up their end. Then again I don't know how much autonomy Haslett gives them. But to my eye Slowick's LBs aren't good in zone coverage drops or recognition, they don't mix it up shuffle positions and rarely overload. Jacobs's DL is very static but lacks the individual talent to make an impact without the help of scheme: stunting, slanting, shooting gaps

I am not a Haslett guy. But I put an equal amount of this on Allen/Shanny -- you got a D line that can stop the run but can't penetrate. Last season, Carriker (gone now) 6 sacks and Bowen if I recall had 5.5 so we got some interior penetration. Jenkins obviously right now is purely a run stuffer. R. Jackson obviously in his career hasn't been a sack guy. So you got pressure just coming at times from Kerrigan and that seems to be it. Then you got a QB who has time to wait for Wrs to get open playing against a LB crew who is poor at coverage, a bad free safety, and 2 mediocre corners. When you break it all down, we should get torched. Unless, we get Bowen who i think has played decently to put more pressure and maybe Jenkins can rediscover what he had going in his rookie preseason -- though coaches swear he's been a stud against the run. Ditto Rob Jackson, there are people on this board who swear he's as good or close enough to Orkapo so far he's been good against the run but not much of a pass rushing threat. Should a good D coordinator mask some of these weakness, yeah, look at the Steelers play without their stud safety and pass rusher and they are still a top 5 defense.

[Oldfan]

...Should a good D coordinator mask some of these weakness, yeah, look at the Steelers play without their stud safety and pass rusher and they are still a top 5 defense.

Good coaches are considered good because they get more from the hand they're dealt. Mike is doing well masking the weakness of his O-line, but Haz just doesn't have the same skill on his side of the ball, as far as I can tell. On the other hand, Mike has the final say on the defensive strategy. So, it's hard for me to fix the blame.

[Lavarleap56]

His personal preference? You mean Mike leaves it up to him?

If the yield is that low, we shouldn't be doing it at all. Each takeaway is worth an average of four points. Each touchdown is worth seven. The Bengals TD on the first play of their game against zero blitz was minus 7. If we had only three takeaways that's +12. Just two TDs (-14) scored against us in 40 games would give us a negative return on zero blitz.

Of course Mike has input and overseas everything. That being said Mike let's his coaches do their jobs and that includes Haslett. He just doesn't have figure heads in positions doing nothing. The defensive Coordinator and staff came up with the game plan & dc calls the game. Does Mike have authority to tell Haslett what to do on the sidelines, yes of course. Does he routinely assert that authority, no he doesn't.

Cover 0 blitz was very effective for us back in the early 2010 season with a healthy Laron Landry. Since then the Cover 0 pressure scheme has not been a effective package for us. Allows a lot more big plays and TDs than it does get people off the field or create turnovers.

I charted a few of our Cover 0 pressure scheme earlier in the season. I can find time to review everything cover 0 package we have run since 2010 if you like. You will see a overwhelming negative return.

[Oldfan]

...I charted a few of our Cover 0 pressure scheme earlier in the season. I can find time to review everything cover 0 package we have run since 2010 if you like. You will see a overwhelming negative return.

I appreciate the offer, but I'll take your word on that. That would be my guess anyway.

As the head coach, I would rein in Haslett a bit.

[SWFLSkins]

Don't know about that.

With a late lead, our boys were over-aggressive against the Giants and Victor Cruz. We got burned. That didn't hurt?

Last season, with a late lead, Haslett was over-aggressive with an all-out blitz against the Cowboys. Romo and Dez Bryant burned us. How did that feel?

Of course, if those gambles had been successful, there's a good chance the defense would have added to their takeaway stat.

How were they over aggressive on the Cruz TD? It's not as if there was only one backer back there covering him, Williams simply played to shallow and took a bad angle as the over the top safety, leaving both chasing Cruz. I did not see an over blitzing package on that play, just a blown coverage.

[Oldfan]

How were they over aggressive on the Cruz TD? It's not as if there was only one backer back there covering him, Williams simply played to shallow and took a bad angle as the over the top safety, leaving both chasing Cruz. I did not see an over blitzing package on that play, just a blown coverage.

Williams was over-aggressive. The only reason for him to be playing up that close was to be in position to jump the route for a pick. If coaches over-emphasize takeaways, players play over-agressively and often get burned.

[SWFLSkins]

Williams was over-aggressive. The only reason for him to be playing up that close was to be in position for a pick. If coaches over-emphasize takeaways, players play over-agressively.

If this is true OF then Haslett with less than two minutes to go with the lead is going for a pic?> should be fired on the sideline at that moment. I find that hard to believe. More like a blown coverage by a player that is not good enough to start but has too. Even in HS we didn't let any player get behind the coverage with a lead in a two minute drill. In fact we made sure we had the speedsters back there and no necessarily the hitters just in case.

[Lavarleap56]

I appreciate the offer, but I'll take your word on that. That would be my guess anyway.

If I had to put a blame chain together it would start with Mike Shanahan. Should never have hired a DC who did not want to run a 3-4 in the first place.

[Oldfan]

If this is true OF then Haslett with less than two minutes to go with the lead is going for a pic?> should be fired on the sideline at that moment. I find that hard to believe. More like a blown coverage by a player that is not good enough to start but has too. Even in HS we didn't let any player get behind the coverage with a lead in a two minute drill. In fact we made sure we had the speedsters back there and no necessarily the hitters just in case.

Please read more carefully. I didn't speculate that Haslett called for the pick on that play.

---------- Post added November-3rd-2012 at 09:56 AM ----------

If I had to put a blame chain together it would start with Mike Shanahan. Should never have hired a DC who did not want to run a 3-4 in the first place.

I wonder how much choice he had. If you were an up-and-coming DC would you put your future in the hands of Mike Shanahan given his Denver management of DCs?