NBC: Police: Illinois woman stabs children 150 times, claiming 'devils' inside them

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm glad she's referred to as a woman, and not the thing she most certainly isn't. A mother.

The 'Devil' claim is very apt. As specimens like this are most assuredly the very personification of pure Evil on Earth. Insane excuse be damned.

Hail.

[authentic]

"He was absolutely contrite," Houghton said. "All kinds of people turn around and meet the Lord and they are a different person. He was doing a lot of good in the community. ... He was doing a lot of good and Satan did not want him doing good, and Satan got to him."

It is always so comforting to know that one of the best things about being religious is that no one is responsible for their actions.
(That'll wait til after yer dead!)

I think I'll go kill me a baby today. Cut it up and stick it in the oven.
Not my fault!
Oh, Satan!
You rascal, you!


~Barf

These are bad representatives of religion. And folks wonder why ppl on the "outside" refuse to convert.

[Bang]

These are bad representatives of religion. And folks wonder why ppl on the "outside" refuse to convert.

Well, of course they're bad examples.


But, if I, as a non-believer live my life within the rules of decency, and treat people kindly, don't steal, kill, covet or bang another's wife..
and this murderous pervert of a preacher repents and confesses his sins... according a lot of these religions, which of us is guaranteed to burn in eternal hellfire?

~Bang

[Hitman21ST]

Well, of course they're bad examples.


But, if I, as a non-believer live my life within the rules of decency, and treat people kindly, don't steal, kill, covet or bang another's wife..
and this murderous pervert of a preacher repents and confesses his sins... according a lot of these religions, which of us is guaranteed to burn in eternal hellfire?

~Bang

If his is a real, legitimate, repentance, who are you to say that he shouldn't go to heaven?

To clarify:
There are people who claim to be Christians who go about their daily lives doing all sorts of despicable stuff, with the "security blanket" of repentance wiping everything away - only to do the same thing over and over again (sin willy-nilly because of repentance). I'm not going to claim that I know for certain, but I can say that I'm almost completely sure that theirs is not actual repentance, and God knows that (the whole "looking at the heart" thing). Therefore, my best guess is that they don't get the same gifts of grace and mercy that others do.

On the other hand, there are those who are not Christians who go about their lives within the rules of decency, as you said. However, they still have a sin nature, passed down from their father (which is why Jesus had to be born of a virgin - no earthly father, no sin nature passed to him), and are still guilty of that, no matter how decent they live their lives. Adam passed the sin nature down to his children, not Eve, as has every father since. Humans aren't inherently perfect, so living a "good" life without repenting isn't enough.

Back to the topic at hand:

If this pastor's repentance was a real one (and only God can know if it was), then yes, he will go to heaven.

[Bang]

If his is a real, legitimate, repentance, who are you to say that he shouldn't go to heaven?

To clarify:
There are people who claim to be Christians who go about their daily lives doing all sorts of despicable stuff, with the "security blanket" of repentance wiping everything away - only to do the same thing over and over again (sin willy-nilly because of repentance). I'm not going to claim that I know for certain, but I can say that I'm almost completely sure that theirs is not actual repentance, and God knows that (the whole "looking at the heart" thing). Therefore, my best guess is that they don't get the same gifts of grace and mercy that others do.

On the other hand, there are those who are not Christians who go about their lives within the rules of decency, as you said. However, they still have a sin nature, passed down from their father (which is why Jesus had to be born of a virgin - no earthly father, no sin nature passed to him), and are still guilty of that, no matter how decent they live their lives. Adam passed the sin nature down to his children, not Eve, as has every father since. Humans aren't inherently perfect, so living a "good" life without repenting isn't enough.

Back to the topic at hand:

If this pastor's repentance was a real one (and only God can know if it was), then yes, he will go to heaven.

Understand, my original post to the topic was not about the murderer.
But to the church lady, who laid responsibility not on him, but on the devil getting to him.


I'm not saying christians are necrophiliac killers.
I'm saying the predelection to absolve ourselves as a group of the responsibilities of our actions is rather deluded, and IMO, falls upon he entire delusion that even a full rpentance would allow a necrophiliac murdering pastor into heaven. It's not up to me to say. the fact that it's even up for debate is pretty much a problem.
But it makes everything more comfortable. This lady essentially believes he's basically a good guy, if not for that devil that made him want to bang a corpse he just killed
It's not his fault.

~Bang

[brandymac27]

I'm sorry, but religion aside, these people are freaking lunatics. To even claim that a "devil" or "evil" was a reason or excuse for these people's actions is absurd. Bottom line...these people are SICK!

[Bang]

I'm sorry, but religion aside, these people are freaking lunatics. To even claim that a "devil" or "evil" was a reason or excuse for these people's actions is absurd. Bottom line...these people are SICK!

I'm certain most people aren't as faithfully forgiving as this old lady seems to be.

Maybe she's just in shock and I'm out on a limb

~Bang

[SkinsFTW]

These are bad representatives of religion. And folks wonder why ppl on the "outside" refuse to convert.

It couldn't be the unbelievability of the whole idea.

I've laughed at the idea that a man is up there in the sky watching everything all of us do since I was about 5 years old. Nobody has ever been able to answer the simple questions that a 5 year old asked. Not to mention that we all know Mary was a closet nympho. She just couldn't tell the truth 2000+ years later we still suffer for her dishonesty

[Hitman21ST]

Understand, my original post to the topic was not about the murderer.
But to the church lady, who laid responsibility not on him, but on the devil getting to him.


I'm not saying christians are necrophiliac killers.
I'm saying the predelection to absolve ourselves as a group of the responsibilities of our actions is rather deluded, and IMO, falls upon he entire delusion that even a full rpentance would allow a necrophiliac murdering pastor into heaven. It's not up to me to say. the fact that it's even up for debate is pretty much a problem.
But it makes everything more comfortable. This lady essentially believes he's basically a good guy, if not for that devil that made him want to bang a corpse he just killed
It's not his fault.

~Bang

I do understand, but was trying to clear something that, from reading your post, I thought you might have questions about.

As for the "the devil made me (him, her, it, whatever) do it" excuse, there are some instances (read: very few) where I truly believe that is the case. Was this one? I'm not really to say, all I have to go on is the story. But even if it is the case, that does not absolve him of the atrocities that he performed, and he does deserve punishment. However, I do not claim to know what his eternal outcome will be (and quite frankly, it's not even for us to worry about).

---------- Post added November-3rd-2012 at 11:29 PM ----------

It couldn't be the unbelievability of the whole idea.

I've laughed at the idea that a man is up there in the sky watching everything all of us do since I was about 5 years old. Nobody has ever been able to answer the simple questions that a 5 year old asked. Not to mention that we all know Mary was a closet nympho. She just couldn't tell the truth 2000+ years later we still suffer for her dishonesty

Wait, what? Please explain.

[authentic]

I'm not saying christians are necrophiliac killers.
I'm saying the predelection to absolve ourselves as a group of the responsibilities of our actions is rather deluded, and IMO, falls upon he entire delusion that even a full rpentance would allow a necrophiliac murdering pastor into heaven. It's not up to me to say. the fact that it's even up for debate is pretty much a problem.
But it makes everything more comfortable. This lady essentially believes he's basically a good guy, if not for that devil that made him want to bang a corpse he just killed
It's not his fault.

~Bang

I happen to agree with you here. I'm a believer in religion (Christian). But am not on board at all with the "devil made me do it". i think its bull manure, in attempt to avoid personal responsibility. and it wrecks of dishonesty. Actually one of my major pet peeves!

[RansomthePasserby]

This lady essentially believes he's basically a good guy, if not for that devil that made him want to bang a corpse he just killed
It's not his fault.

~Bang

This lady is obviously horribly deceived. The guy's an ex-convict after all.

[Jumbo]

Hitman, just being pragmatic here about your clarification---I doubt the information your passing on is unknown to most (pretty much all) who speak in a questioning manner regarding those kind of beliefs. Such people know all that, they just are indicating they think it's something that doesn't make sense to them (to put it one way).

Further, additional typical claims that the ways of God are beyond comprehension (or similar) doesn't change anything for such folk, either, and they have likely (inevitably, really) heard all that innumerable times before, too.

This is offered to just be informative about what I think would be obvious in most cases and maybe save you or others the trouble next time you read a comment like Bang's.

It's one of those things where two views are just fundamentally and diametrically opposed, and it's not due to one side not having been exposed to the thinking of the other.

[SkinsFTW]

I happen to agree with you here. I'm a believer in religion (Christian). But am not on board at all with the "devil made me do it". i think its bull manure, in attempt to avoid personal responsibility. and it wrecks of dishonesty. Actually one of my major pet peeves!

No, Honest!!! The Devil really did make him do it!!!

[RansomthePasserby]

I happen to agree with you here. I'm a believer in religion (Christian). But am not on board at all with the "devil made me do it". i think its bull manure, in attempt to avoid personal responsibility. and it wrecks of dishonesty. Actually one of my major pet peeves!

I'm a Christian as well, and I'm definitely not on board with the "devil made me do it" excuse. I mean, isn't that excuse the classic example of what NOT to do from the whole "Original Sin/Fall of Man" episode?

[Bang]

Pretty much what Jumbo said. i apprciate you taking the time, Hitman, don't get me wrong.
But I don't think I'm atypical of atheists who have reached my tender age (and like to run their mouth like i do) without having heard just about every argument.


I don't mean to offend or put a battery on my shoulder ala Bob Conrad.
Just dropping a thought.

~Bang