If Shanahan's given up, what hope do we really have with him? A pretty darn disappointed and disillusioned long time backer of the HC.

[s0crates]

who knows, maybe the old washed up coach will get us to 8-8 and 3-3 in the divison. at least show some improvement.........

Really. I would love to see some tangible progress, and not in the form of silver linings, but in the form of wins.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

The inability to draft argument is being used 2 years too early IMO. Players need time to develop. The 2011 draft might seem like a long time ago, but those guys have less than 2 seasons of football under their belt.

2010 was a "bad" year, in that we only got 2 players out of it. The McNabb trade was indeed ill-advised, and Vinny robbed us of a 3rd a year before through the supplemental draft, but all FOs have bad draft years now and then.

In 2011, Kerrigan was a hit, Jenkins should be a hit next year once he's had a year of playing after his 2011 injury, Hankerson is still growing, but he's shown some promise in every facet except his hands (which I think is more of a focus problem than anything else), and Helu is a speedy playmaker who can complement Morris, when he's healthy.

Everyone else was 5th round or later, and most of those guys have proven to be ok depth. The problem is, with injuries, they're being asked to do way more than they are capable of. Gomes, for example, probably wouldn't be a terrible backup SS for a week here or there with a decent pass rush, but trying to make him a starter when we have no pass rush isn't going to end well. That's true of any backup honestly.

And the jury is still out on 2012 as well. RGIII and Morris are good, but LeRibeus and the rest need a year or two.

If we look back on the 2010-2012 stretch, and all we can say we got out of it was Williams, Perry, Kerrigan, Jenkins, RGIII, and Morris, then yeah, I'd characterize that as very poor drafting. That being said, I think we still have a chance to get starter level play out of Hankerson, Hurt, Neild, LeRibeus, K. Robinson, Gettis, Crawford, Bernstine, and also Minnifield as a UDFA. I know we won't get it from all of them, but I think as a team you want to hit on 3 starters every draft, and 2 depth guys. 2010 won't get there, but we've got 2 starters from 2011, and a bunch of depth that might still develop, and 2 starters from 2012, with, again, a bunch of depth that could still develop.

The key for next year is to hit with our 2nd and 3rd rounders. We need a new RT, S, and CB, and we probably won't address it all in FA. How well our 2nd and 3rd rounders do when pressed into service will go a long way in telling us how good they are at evaluating the talent of early career contributors.

Thank you sir, for a well thought out analysis. I just refuse to believe that everything is as bad as it seems. I think we have drafted well, and I think those guys will continue to get better and our team will continue to improve. Not everything shows up in the W-L column, and injuries have played a major role.

The big question for me is has Shanny lost the locker room? If he has, his time here will be limited. I'm just holding out hope that the young guys can come along fast enough for the guys in the locker room to see that we've got a team that's worth fighting for. I'm not ready for a regime change.

[DogofWar1]

The big question for me is has Shanny lost the locker room? If he has, his time here will be limited. I'm just holding out hope that the young guys can come along fast enough for the guys in the locker room to see that we've got a team that's worth fighting for. I'm not ready for a regime change.

This is my biggest concern as well. You look at what happened in Tampa last year with Morris, and it wasn't pretty. If the same thing happened here, I don't think Shanahan would be allowed another year, nor should he really be if he's lost the locker room. I do think Shanahan will, under every other circumstance besides losing the locker room, deserve a year 4.

In hockey, it was incredible how fast the turnaround goes sometimes. Bruce was HC of an undefeated Capitals one week, and within a couple weeks was fired and replaced once the locker room turned.

I really hope Shanahan hasn't lost the locker room, and that they come out strong after the bye week. This will be one of the more important bye weeks in recent history.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

This is my biggest concern as well. You look at what happened in Tampa last year with Morris, and it wasn't pretty.

Amen. When it goes, it goes. It's the snowball that can't be stopped.

I think you could tell that Haslett was losing his players earlier in the year. I wonder how much of that has spilled over to the offensive side of the ball and to the head man himself.

[s0crates]

This was our homecoming game. We were celebrating 80 years. We were wearing our snazzy throwback duds. More than 150 Redskins alumni were in attendance. You're supposed to win the homecoming game.

As with any good homecoming game, we had a cupcake match-up against a struggling 1-6 team. You need to win the easy ones.

Coach Shanahan called it a must win game, and it was. Win and we keep ourselves in the hunt for a playoff spot, lose and we start looking forward to next year. You need to win a game like this before the bye week.

Well the 'skins lost the homecoming game. Even with all the alumni watching, even against the dregs of the NFL, and even in a game we had every reason to be fired up for, we could not find a way to win. So you can understand if the fans and coaches are mighty disappointed.

Coach knew it was a must win game at the beginning of the week, and he still knew it when he gave his post game press conference. He all but conceded the season after this loss, while mentioning we still had a slim chance, he admitted it was time to start making evaluations for the future. I can only hope this was some kind of motivational tactic for a team that seems to have given up on him, but I fear it was just brutal honesty. Maybe Shanny has given up.

We basically need to win out if we want to make the playoffs, and it has been over a year since this team put together back-to-back wins, so let's call the odds of that very slim. Maybe I should give up too.

The extremely unlikely could happen of course. Its still technically possible to make a run. We do still have 5 division games remaining on our schedule, including Thanksgiving in Dallas and New York at home on Monday Night Football. There is still something to play for at least, but it is awfully hard to get your hopes up after seeing what we saw today. I took some heart in hearing Griffin's post-game presser. There is a man who has not given up.

Now is not the time to make rash decisions, but I think it is safe to say Shanny needs to show something by year's end in order for the fans to keep the faith. Win on Thanksgiving, win on MNF, finish the year strong, then things look much different than they do immediately after a loss like this. Its hard to imagine the team we saw this weekend doing all that, but with RG3 under center it may be possible.

Make no mistake, losing this one is frustrating and disappointing, and we really are all but out of contention yet again. I am really at my wits end with this team and this regime today. I've been here this long though, and I'm not going anywhere.

Yeah I'm very upset, but I am holding on to the slim hope we will show some actual progress this season.

[SkinsFTW]

Basically Shanahan wanted to do this during the game:

[ORAKPOPHOBIA-98]

This was our homecoming game. We were celebrating 80 years. We were wearing our snazzy throwback duds. More than 150 Redskins alumni were in attendance. You're supposed to win the homecoming game.

As with any good homecoming game, we had a cupcake match-up against a struggling 1-6 team. You need to win the easy ones.

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates. They've been in all their games, save vs. the Giants. We caught them at the wrong time, when their offense and defense were just starting to come together. It was unrealistic to think we would walk all over this team. Last week they didn't let down against the Bears, a much better team than us, and they sure weren't going to let down this week just because it was our homecoming game. Disappointing that we didn't rise to the occasion regardless, but managing expecations to realistic levels, the way the game turned out was in line with what we saw in both teams' previous games.

I hope the bye week serves as an opportunity to swing the momentum back around.

[s0crates]

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates. They've been in all their games, save vs. the Giants. We caught them at the wrong time, when their offense and defense were just starting to come together. It was unrealistic to think we would walk all over this team. Last week they didn't let down against the Bears, a much better team than us, and they sure weren't going to let down this week just because it was our homecoming game. Disappointing that we didn't rise to the occasion regardless, but managing expecations to realistic levels, the way the game turned out was in line with what we saw in both teams' previous games.

I hope the bye week serves as an opportunity to swing the momentum back around.

I guess there is no such thing as a cupcake match-up in the NFL, but if you want to be a contender then you need to beat a 1-6 team. We are obviously nowhere near being a contender though.

[SkinsFTW]

We basically need to win out if we want to make the playoffs, and it has been over a year since this team put together back-to-back wins, so let's call the odds of that very slim. Maybe I should give up too.

The Redskins haven't won 5 straight divisional games since 1983. Not even the 1991 team did it. Yeah, forget the playoffs. We play the Ravens and Browns too so maybe we beat the Ravens then lose to the Browns, that would fit the trend.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 02:37 AM ----------

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates.

You can say that about any team in the league. The Jags beat the Colts in Indy and came close to beating the Vikings on the road too. The Chiefs won at New Orleans and should've beat the Ravens. The Browns beat Cinci and SD.

[rskin72]

I read this whole thread.....and must say I agree with a lot of viewpoints expressed here. I am working in Guam, so was unable to attend the game vs the panthers.....gave my daughter my tickets, and she texted me after the game that "your team sucks". I got up at 5am here to listen to some of the game via internet radio....and was stunned to hear that we were losing to the Panthers. Say what you will, but the panthers were 1-6. That is not a good team....and a team we should have beaten IF we were good.

I am very conflicted about the root of the issues with this team....but after the past couple of games, where we were dominated by a beatable team in the Steelers ( I watched that game) and apparently were also owned by the pathetic Panthers......I am beginning to think that our coaching may be the root cause of the evil.

I have never been a fan of the coach being a GM as well. Don't know too many of those scenarios that have worked out well.....outside of maybe Parcells. So, Shanahan has brought the groceries to cook the meal....and this is what we have to feast on. While most of us knew in pre-season that we had some weaknesses on this team......it seems that there are more weaknesses than anyone imagined.

Then....when we consider that a team like the Colts....who were 2-14 last season, blew up their front office and coaching staff....rookie QB.....coach develops cancer.....low expectations this season....and suddenly they are 5-3 and look like a playoff team. Seattle....with another rookie QB.....and alibet a lot of defense talent....is 5-4 and look stout. Even Miami....again with a rookie QB and new HC....are 4-4. Are you kidding me here?

In short....I just don't see this team as competitive in Shanny's third year as HC. Granted we have injuries....key injuries....but every team in the NFL has to cope with this. Do we really believe with Rak and Carriker our defense would somehow be top 5? I don't buy that. Our pass rush may be improved, but our secondary would still be woeful. Yea....we were dealt a bad hand WRT the MARA cap crap....but still our coaching staff chose the secondary players that we have. I recall listening to Moving the Chains after they visited Redskin training camp, and they were not impressed with our secondary at all.

I am not quite onboard with a complete cleaning of the house yet......and I did not hear the Shanny post game comments either.....but with the overall play of the team.. for all of the time Shanny has been GM/HC.....and the overall record......it is clear to me that something needs to change other than the players. I mean, I remember watching Gibbs II teams and wincing about untimely penalities.....poor clock mamagement.....but I thought those teams still provided effort and had heart. We made the playoffs with Gibbs II. Not so with Shanny.

Guess we will see how the season plays out....and how the team performs in the next game after the bye....home vs the Beagles that I will be in the stands for. It is one thing for a team to play a close, hard fought game and lose.....another to not be competitive. I get the feeling that our team is just not consistently competitive even after 2.5 years of rebuilding. I want to see progress....not sure that this is the case.

[s0crates]

Nice post rskin72. You've summarized most of the sensible things said in this thread quite well. I also like the personal touch there. That text from your daughter had to sting.

[RandyHolt]

He has finally a stud QB. He has had 3 years, 3 years, to get basic protections in place to protect him in the pocket. A place all NFL QB's have to live eventually. It looks to me that RG3 has little confidence there, he is under pressure from few rushers.

Mike remains focused on hand selecting no name linemen to coach up to be NFLers. He by passes top rated linemen and takes reaches, like LeRib. Keeps waiting for Jamal Brown. Pulls Black out of retirement? Willie Smith is starting in Oakland last I checked.

At some point, it needs to be accepted that he cannot build a line. Its a passing league now. Is not Denver 1995 anymore. Teams have to pass to make come backs, run hurry up, run 2 minute drills, and coaches must protect the QB first.

Mike's primary focus has been to run the ball, and develop his son. He didn't seem well prepared to develop RG3. His OL does not even provide basic protections for him. We cant blame injuries on the OL not being able to pass pro. Its all on Mike. If he cant get pass pro in place in 3 years, I don't think he can do it in 5. Do you?

The problem is not can he build a line, its his philosophy when trying. He does not build lines to pass pro.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Great post rskin's man.

Pretty much encapsulates everything.

Hail.

[HogNose]

Shanny & Co. will now be shutting RG3 down to save him for next year.

[MustangSteve]

Gibbs, forgive me because I'm upset and I have bee saying some these same things for years... WHY DID HE GUT THE ONE STRENGTH THIS TEAM HAD FOR YEARS? That 4-3 needed some youth/aggression in certain areas not a complete face lift.

Our offense needed to be retooled completely . It's like he's making this harder than it had to be. We still have the same needs we had since he took the helm and a whole host of new ones he created along the way.

HAIL

This is the reason for the losing and frustration. Never fix something thats not broke, this was the strength of this team and well respected across the league. Jim Haslett is accountable for this. Next is Kyle and his play calling. This team drove down the field inside the 10 yard line twice, when Kyle got fancy instead of getting aggressive.

Both times we pitched the ball back at least 5 yards and lost those yards. Why not play action to receivers that were catching fire, at that time they were catching everything, or drive it down their throat with Morris who was eating them up in chunks of yards. Instead we get 6 points, there is NO excuse for that type of play calling. We dont even take shots to the endzone incase anyone else doesn't notice!

I Hope Mike see's this, we went from attacking teams and scoring 30+ points to an offense that won't even take a shot downfield anymore, and you wonder why we are losing Mike? The Steelers had their 2 best starters out in their secondary and we only tried 1 shot late in the game that should have been PI. No wonder the Texans never made the playoffs till Kyle was gone!