Poll: Which has contributed the most to the Washington Redskins 3-6 record? Injuries, Lack of Quality Depth, or Coaching?

[Painkiller]

cry me a river if i am not a blind homer. This team needs alot. Why not add another RT/LB/CB in the 4th round?

I'm not a blind homer either, and I don't think that anybody is above criticism. God knows I've levied plenty of it at people on this forum over the years. With that said, I try really hard to be objective and look at all the facts before I make a decision. Doesn't always work that way, I have my emotional moments just like everybody else...but I do try to not be reactionary. For me, there are just WAY too many variables in play that make the overall picture too murky to really discern where we are yet. Not enough has gone right yet to objectively judge the job Shanahan is doing. You and some of the others who are thinking like you may call them excuses. I call them irrefutable facts that for many reasons beyond his control, Shanahan has not put a winning product on the field yet, and it goes way beyond just making a questionably ill-advised draft pick in the fourth round that in the grand scheme means little one way or the other. Cousins on the bench is not the difference between a winning team and a losing team right now.

[DogofWar1]

There is a big difference between "sucks" and "role player" or "average."

I think we have a lot of average talent. The problem is, average talent on its own struggles, especially when there are a few spots, like Safety, where we have very below average play. Furthermore, for average players to really look "good," you generally need

Last year, our DLine was very solid. Carriker, Cofield, and Bowen got 14 sacks between the 3 of them, a solid number. Fast forward to this year, and they're struggling to get any pressure. Do the three of them suck? I don't think so, they just needed a difference maker, like Orakpo, there. Orakpo is out, so they appear incapable. Add in the loss of Carriker, and it's even tougher.

Truthfully we need those average players on the team, simply because no team can afford 52, or even 22, above average players or difference makers, unless you're hitting on every pick in every draft and have a bunch of superstars on rookie deals.

It's just that, when you lose the guy who raises the ability of everyone around him (in our case, Orakpo), everyone starts falling back to earth. Normally, we'd manage, but we lost Carriker too, and have no, literal, Safety net.

So I don't think our guys "suck," I think they're average. With a healthy Orakpo and Carriker (and the same safety problems), we managed to be 13th in the league in defense in one of the most offensive friendly years in the NFL's history. We just need one or two guys who raise the talent level of everyone around them. Orakpo is one guy, Fletcher might have been another previously, but his age is catching up to him.

Next year, assuming we don't have another bout of pervasive injuries-itis, will be the year to judge the defense. We'll presumably have Orakpo back, Carriker back, and a new ILB, SS (possibly Meriweather still), FS, and probably a new CB or two.

[laurent]

Where's the lack of talent option?

[Thinking Skins]

I'm going with coaching mainly because the penalties and the guys being naive and just doing stupid stuff that have cost us games, not to mention just bad playcalling lately by KS (seems teams have figured out our College Ball offense). Even the lack of depth we have goes to coaching because our coach is our leading talent recruiter.

[darrelgreenie]

that for many reasons beyond his control, Shanahan has not put a winning product on the field yet,

Talent, depth and coaching fall directly under any HC/GM control.

[WhodatSkinsFan?]

Combination... if you need to adjust to your players; especially on 'D', then do it.


Unfortunately, for us... we don't.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 11:24 PM ----------

I'm going with coaching mainly because the penalties and the guys being naive and just doing stupid stuff that have cost us games, not to mention just bad playcalling lately by KS (seems teams have figured out our College Ball offense). Even the lack of depth we have goes to coaching because our coach is our leading talent recruiter.

^^^ Agreed.[COLOR="Gold"]

[PerryMason]

When you have quality depth, injuries to starters aren't as impactful as they have been for us.....so i feel like those two kind of bleed together.

[pjfootballer]

Actually other than a few bright spots the whole team does suck. skinfan2k's problem is in thinking that we could have gotten more value for that 4th round pick and that we would have been a much better team if we had drafted anyone but a QB there. Sorry but one 4th round pick is not going to fill many holes. solidifying the most important position on the field is as good a use as any for that pick.

I agree with you. And if people would look beyond this year to the next 2 drafts, for the first time in a long time we will NOT be using any of our picks in 2013 and 2014 draft on a QB. It was like an annual right for us to take a flyer on a late round QB in hopes that he would show enough to unseat the garbage starting (Brunell, Campbell, Ramsey). From 2002 for 10 years until 2011 draft, the Redskins selected a QB 7 out of 10 times in those drafts. Shanny waited until he got his "guy" in his third draft and then solidified the position with Cousins.

Cousins wasn't picked to play, he was picked to solidify the position, like you said. But stupid people are stupid. I mean, yeah, a 4th round cornerback would "totally" have us at 7-2 right now. You know he'd have Hall of Fame written all over him.

[DogofWar1]

Cousins wasn't picked to play, he was picked to solidify the position, like you said. But stupid people are stupid. I mean, yeah, a 4th round cornerback would "totally" have us at 7-2 right now. You know he'd have Hall of Fame written all over him.

And if anything, a CB wouldn't help as much as a safety right now. Problem is, no one picked in the 4th or later would really help us. The last solid safety was probably Brandon Taylor in the 3rd. If someone wants to argue we should have taken Taylor over LeRibeus, I suppose there's some arguments to be made there, but it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference.

[Thinking Skins]

I stand by what I was saying in the offseason that we should draft by impact positions. We should look for best player available, but with the realization that certain positions are more valuable than others. If we can get a premier pass rusher, then I think we still have to take them no matter what we already have. Same goes with a top tier offensive tackle. Ideally he could start at RT, but even if we can get somebody that can play G/T then I say go for it as those are important positions. After that, its pretty much up in the air to me because we have holes everywhere except maybe RB and QB.

[Painkiller]

Talent, depth and coaching fall directly under any HC/GM control.

sure they do, but if some of you want to have tunnel vision and refuse to see anything but Shanahan needs to be fired than I don't know what else to say. To look at the Redskins situation over the last 2.5 years and try to say that he has had a fair chance, and enough has gone his way where he should have produced a playoff team by now is disingenuous.

[RandyHolt]

Mike seems like he is trending backwards. How many steps back is he allowed in his 3rd year, because Rak tore a pect, or Garcon got hurt?

He should have depth built up at many positions now, including running back. Where it's more like a turnstile. Royster has been our only depth all year, and doesn't even get but 2 touches a game. Yet Mike bases his entire game off of running the ball. He pushed all in on Morris but he needs breathers and cannot be our only back.

Our OL struggles in basics - pass protection. Is this the best any of his OL will ever be, is this his design for an OL? These aren't a bunch of rookies thrown in the fold either. Our depth is suspect, not a one has pushed a starter out. Polumbus is pushed by a semi retiree only. Its not Vinny's fault, eventually. While our cap penalty is a factor I doubt the key to a super bowl is spending to the max otherwise Dan would have a ring by now.

When your GM is your coach, pretty much all that happens is on Mike.

[DogofWar1]

Mike seems like he is trending backwards. How many steps back is he allowed in his 3rd year, because Rak tore a pect, or Garcon got hurt?

And Carriker tore a quad tendon.
And Davis tore his Achilles.
And Helu had lower leg injury and turf toe.
And Minnifield needed microfracture surgery.
And Bernstine tore a bunch of ligaments.
And Neild tore his left ACL.
And Meriweather tore his MCL.
And Brown is...well, Brown, but the cap hit stopped us from replacing that.
And Jackson got suspended.
And I don't know what Hightower's injury was but he's not here and he actually knows how to block as an RB.

Not saying some of the blame doesn't fall on Mike, but the sheer number of injuries to starters and contributors is just insane. I mean, we're talking:
1 WR, 1 OLB, 1 DE, 1 NT, 1 RT, 3 Ss (that's the big one), 1 CB, 2 RBs, and 1 TE.

[RandyHolt]

We certainly had our share of injuries, maybe a record amount of games lost. It seems most injuries are on defense. Defense is not how Mike wins games though. The Mike Shanahan key to victory core remains intact. OL, QB, RB. Running the ball is his signature.

Its when Morris is out, that D's just T off on RG3. I would like to think there must be a RB out there that can help us. I thought that was near the top of Shanahan's resume, we are going to be able to run the ball, with backs no one knew could run. He hit a homer on Morris but thinking he can carry the load alone is killing this team. I am surprised he didnt replace THT or Helu much sooner, especially since Royster had injuries himself, and only looked good in one half in preseason, and got injured doing it IIRC. I don't think teams even game plan for Royster at all. I suspect he is the least productive backup RB in the entire league, and probably 3rd down back as well.

A dominant offense can overcome a shoddy defense. If we can run, we can pass, if we can pass, we can win shootouts. It affords the D the chance to be aggressive and it not cost us the game. Even the Madieu gaffe vs NY, we had a chance to win, right?

When cant we run? When Morris is out of the game. Its also when we can't pass. If he can somehow find a backup for him, it will go a LONG way to curing all those injury woes. I think we should give more carries to Young.

[J-bomb]

anyone know if hightower is knee is healed now id rather he have a roster spot at 80% healthy then banks.