Repetition, Repetiton, Repetition...

[Oldfan]

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Why are Skins receivers creating drive-killing false start penalties? If we could solve that problem, we could win a couple more tight football games.

I have a theory about it.

The car you drive is probably the most evolved manmade system on the planet. The very first cars had to be started with a crank, outside, in the front of the car. Most women couldn't start it. Men broke arms when the crank didn't disengage.

Today's cars are much easier to operate. A child could start one. You car is much more complex than the first cars, but the complexity has been kept under the hood. That should be a common goal of all systems, including football systems. Make it simple to operate. Keep the complexity under the hood.

From what I've read, Archie Manning seems to have the right idea. I've read that Peyton had about 50 pass plays in his Indy playbook. The typical NFL playbook has about 150. And, I've read that, after Eli looked like a bust in his first year, Archie had his son suggest to his Giants coaches that they pare down the playbook to those passes that Eli felt most comfortable throwing.

It's simple math. Since your practice time is limited, you have three times as much time to practice 50 plays than you do with 150. The Manning brothers are not great passers. Their accuracy results, in part, from more practice time on fewer plays.

So, why does Logan Paulsen commit false start penalties? Most likely he's thinking about his assignment and not about the snap count. And... he does that because he hasn't practiced the play enough to just forget about his assignment.

Jim Haslett has said that the defense he's teaching takes three years to master. Mike Shanahan has said the same thing about his offense. If those statements are true, they are admissions of poor system design. They are too difficult to learn.

Every youth coach has been advised to apply the KISS principle. I think simplifying the scheme is a great idea at all levels. What many people don't realize is that simplifying the operation of systems is hard work. Keeping the complexity under the hood isn't easy.

[Koolblue13]

Like a pistol formation quick slant or stretch run, because that seems to be the play we run constantly.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I agree that we should keep things simple....and from the looks of it based off of the plays we have been calling i THINK (dont know for sure) we are. Shanny said it take 3 years to master his system yet we are not running the same system we were running the last two years. Maybe the run game is the same but the passing game isn't. It seems to me we just run the same play over and over again. Read-option play...and the slot WR/TE up the seem. Of course we are running more plays than that but those plays are called a lot.

I also think Peyton/Eli had a hell of a lot more talent at WR/TE than we do. I dont think our WR's or TE's are very good. Which would prove your point that we should be using the KISS principle.

With the D.....i have no idea what is going on there. Everyone on the field looks lost. We cant generate any pressure and we cant cover anyone.

[daveakl]

I can't speak much for the defense, but for the offense, check the stats on rookie QB's and how many false starts / illegal formation penalties they have. Watch vet QB's (esp the good ones) move their players into the proper places before the snap. Now watch for RGIII to do it. I think that will come for him, he's a smart kid. But right now you have Hankerson, Paulsen, Morgan, Morris, Robinson, Moss, and RGIII all playing in a new offense (or at least new to them in many regards from what they ran last year and they are still learning it. Frustrating to watch for sure, but when it clicks you can see how potent it will be.

As to the idea on how many plays are in the playbook, I haven't seen the Redskins run that many different looks / plays that would make me believe it's a large playbook issue.

[Skinsinparadise]

according to Greg Cosell studying the offense for NFL Matchup, the Skins are running a very simple offense right now, they just cover the simplicity up with multiple formations

[Oldfan]

...As to the idea on how many plays are in the playbook, I haven't seen the Redskins run that many different looks / plays that would make me believe it's a large playbook issue.

In the 2010 preseason, Kyle was talking about installing 150 plays. Since the ZBS run game only requires six or seven, I assumed that the rest were pass plays.

Why do you think our receivers are false starting so much?

[skins island connection]

Repetition? Well, when the WRs are lining up off the LOS, I doubt repetition matters much as a brain cell. That blew my mind when I saw that TD called back, but then again its the mindset of the players. Seems that quite a few times a player is called for a penalty, they're the recepient of the ball, and are not paying attention to details. What a maroon.

Jim's defense takes 3 years to master? Hec, I can take a dump in 3 minutes, and it matches his scheme to a tee. I was so disappointed to see he still had a job at 5 p.m. monday, so unless the oplayers take it upon themselves to disregard his wonderful scheme, things will doubtfully get better; I hope i'm wrong, but this is the glaring problem, being we were in most every game until the defense plays their base prevent throughout the 4th qtr.

The bye week is the perfect time for the entire team to look back at their problems and make changes, and fast. The offensive issues are mainly with WRs not knowing how to catch or get separation, but a strong running game and QB play helps alot; the defense, well, its sad. Just sad. Fundamentals cannot be stressed enough, but until changes are made at the coaching level, it will not help matters much, and disheartens any offensive progress made...

[Oldfan]

according to Greg Cosell studying the offense for NFL Matchup, the Skins are running a very simple offense right now, they just cover the simplicity up with multiple formations

Multiple formations add complexity. The receiver has to remember where he should line up. Against Carolina, Hankerson drew a red zone penalty when he didn't line up on the LOS.

[Skinsinparadise]

Why do you think our receivers are false starting so much?

Much of it might have to do that they simply aren't that good or at least not good yet. Aldrick Robinson and L. Hankerson can't seem to catch a ball. L Paulson is an undrafted free agent and learning his way. Be one thing if they were doing other things right frequently. But with no Fred Davis and no Garcon -- the Redskins just might have the worst receiving crew in the league.

---------- Post added November-6th-2012 at 07:45 AM ----------

Multiple formations add complexity. The receiver has to remember where he should line up. Hankerson drew a red zone penalty when he didn't line up on the LOS.

If they are running a very simple offense and you add a component where you don't disguise it much -- won't it be easy to stop, especially with a receiving crew that poses no threat?

[Oldfan]

Much of it might have to do that they simply aren't that good or at least not good yet. Aldrick Robinson and L. Hankerson can't seem to catch a ball. L Paulson is an undrafted free agent and learning his way. Be one thing if they were doing other things right frequently. But with no Fred Davis and no Garcon -- the Redskins just might have the worst receiving crew in the league.

I can't make the logical connection between false starts and lack of talent. Lack of concentration seems more likely. So, I ask what causes it.

If they are running a very simple offense and you add a component where you don't disguise it much -- won't it be easy to stop, especially with a receiving crew that poses no threat?

Of course, but my point is that the scheme isn't simple when receivers have two things to think about rather than one.

[Skinsinparadise]

I can't make the logical connection between false starts and lack of talent. Lack of concentration seems more likely. So, I ask what causes it.

Maybe i am extrapolating from my experience at work. People who are competent and good, often are so for multiple things. People that are incompetent in one thing can often be incompetent at something else. I noticed in the games our rookie QB noticing guys out of place and realigning them before they play. RG 3 is clearly a competent, smart player. Hankerson who drops balls partly because of concentration issues might have other concentration problems too with other things -- that's my point.

Of course, but my point is that the scheme isn't simple when receivers have two things to think about rather than one.

I agree with that but its about trade offs. you got a rookie QB right now with an awful receiving crew. do you take penalties or take your chances of running a more predictable easy to read offense? They are already making it simple in terms of their routes since apparently they don't have that many.

[KDawg]

In the 2010 preseason, Kyle was talking about installing 150 plays. Since the ZBS run game only requires six or seven, I assumed that the rest were pass plays.

Why do you think our receivers are false starting so much?

I think your repetition theory is pretty on point.

I'd like to see a breakdown of when our receivers are false starting, too. Sometimes it's on a motion. But if it's against mostly press coverage, it would likely be because they are nervous about getting off the jam.

Another reason is the snap count. I can't hear it on TV. You can usually hear a guy like Rodgers or Brady bark out the signals. I don't know how many silent snap counts we're working with, and I don't know how often Griff calls out a cadence, but I can't hear it on TV. When a receiver has to look in towards the football to see the snap because they can't hear the count (or there isn't one) it takes their eye off the coverage which means choice routes become more difficult to run, and if a DB is jamming them it becomes much more difficult.

Some receivers compensate by anticipating the snap count and jumping offsides.

[Oldfan]

Maybe i am extrapolating from my experience at work. People who are competent and good, often are so for multiple things. People that are incompetent in one thing can often be incompetent at something else. I noticed in the games our rookie QB noticing guys out of place and realigning them before they play. RG 3 is clearly a competent, smart player. Hankerson who drops balls partly because of concentration issues might have other concentration problems too with other things -- that's my point.



I agree with that but its about trade offs. you got a rookie QB right now with an awful receiving crew. do you take penalties or take your chances of running a more predictable easy to read offense? They are already making it simple in terms of their routes since apparently they don't have that many.

-- Penalties are drive killers
-- Take out the multiple formation, add more plays with the practice time
-- The same formation with multiple plays isn't all that predictable
-- If the play is run precisely, it's hard to stop even if the opponent knows it's coming
--If Greg Cosell can figure out that the multiple formations mean nothing so can our opponents

An offense that doesn't make mistakes has to be defensed to be stopped. It doesn't beat itself.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree.
Sometimes coaches fall in love with the dressing more then the steak.

---------- Post added November-6th-2012 at 08:31 AM ----------

I agree with that but its about trade offs. you got a rookie QB right now with an awful receiving crew. do you take penalties or take your chances of running a more predictable easy to read offense? They are already making it simple in terms of their routes since apparently they don't have that many.

Imo, and not just for our team but for any team, penalties are a reflection of coaching.

Sure we can blame the individual player at the time, but when you see a pattern of procedure penalties by WRs I look to the position coach first, then the coordinator then the head coach.
By and large a well prepared player doesn't make procedure mistakes.

Edit: As a coach I would be open to simplifiying or removing anything that prevented my players form being able to play fast

[Oldfan]

I think your repetition theory is pretty on point.

I'd like to see a breakdown of when our receivers are false starting, too. Sometimes it's on a motion. But if it's against mostly press coverage, it would likely be because they are nervous about getting off the jam.

Another reason is the snap count. I can't hear it on TV. You can usually hear a guy like Rodgers or Brady bark out the signals. I don't know how many silent snap counts we're working with, and I don't know how often Griff calls out a cadence, but I can't hear it on TV. When a receiver has to look in towards the football to see the snap because they can't hear the count (or there isn't one) it takes their eye off the coverage which means choice routes become more difficult to run, and if a DB is jamming them it becomes much more difficult.

Some receivers compensate by anticipating the snap count and jumping offsides.

SIP brought up a good point. Multiple formations to run the same plays. Weigh the advantages v. disadvantages for us.

To keep things simple for the receivers, I would not add that in the pro game, but lots of very good coaches do.