Why is the offense trying to be so gimmicky? And why is the 2 minute drill so non-urgent?

[NewCliche21]

BobGriffin.

Very nice.

Welcome to ES.

[DM72]

Bob Griffins post also pretty much says what me and others feels.

There's always something with this team. We can't do this because of that. We can't do that because of this. I'm at the point where I'm only looking at wins and loses.

[Bacon]

Why is Griff's skill as a passing QB still in question? His accuracy is superb, and even in games where we're playing from behind, his completion percentage continues to impress. He can make the throws and will continue to if given the time. Hell, even if he isn't given the time. I have seen that man connect on crucial 3rd and 4th downs in each of his first 9 games by virtue of his legs and heart alone. Yes, he can throw.

The offense has thrown some good blocks in open space to help pad out its YAC numbers, but we all know our receiving corps is insufficient to stretch the field. If you want Griff to be a "passing quarterback" in the non-west coast QB/Andrew Luck sense, give him some weapons. The gimmick plays will go when either Kyle goes or the novelty of RG3 as a concept goes. In the meantime, we are limited in personnel. Our #1 receiver was Indy's #2 last year, and he's not even playing. Davis is out. It's no wonder that the honeymoon is over.

Griff's success lives and dies by the running game right now because he has no one to break the game open individually, no one who can get open and make a defense pay. With a successful running attack, play action can put the defense on its heels and nullify individual matchups. But we don't run with Morris, because we have RG****ing3 under center. The idea of RG3 is strangling the offense, even though RG3 the player is one of the only things going for it, besides Morris and Trent Williams. And that is none other than Kyle's fault. He doesn't understand how to properly use RG3, and RG3 is far more valuable to this franchise than Kyle is. If it were up to me, the latter would be gone at season's end, replaced by Norv Turner, fresh of off his inevitable firing in San Diego. I know we all hate Norv, but he can run an offense.

[Dallsux]

Regardlerss of if the offense has been good or bad, I think we can all agree its been a bit gimmicky. Yes, I understand they are trying to make it comfortable for RG3 and the easiest way to do that is by giving him an offense that he was used to, but come on. I think the best part about RG3 is his pocket presence and his poise, and yet we are still running a gimmick style offense. I guarantee you if you just use the same offensive playbook we had last year, and incorporate RG3 into it, he would be throwing darts all over the place. Honestly, designed runs, other than a QB draw at the goaline (which by the way, if we would have ran that yesterday instead of terrible sweeps and screens, we would have scored in the first quarter), are so ridiculous. If we were running a normal shanahan offense (or any normal NFL offense) I honestly believe wed have just the same, if not better, results. I understand injuries are setting this back, and I understand we have to tamper our expectations. I didnt have high expectations going into this season, I never would have thought Robert was going to play this good. And yes, the offense has worked, BUT, I think the reason its been slowed as of late, is because the defense has done a better job playing it. But thats the thing, they havent figured Robert out at all, and they never will. Even the past 2 weeks where he supposedly had "bad" weeks. The guy didnt throw one interception. Didnt have one fumble. He may have only had 1 touchdown and like a 55% completion, but heck with the drops, he would have had 60% at least. Its time to see what he can do in a normal pro style offense. We have to see what he can do. Gimmicky pistol formations and things of that nature just dont work forever in the NFL. Lets put him behind center and let him start reading defenses pre snap.

I think the Shanny's are testing the waters with this offense. Other teams are also running the "pistol" & I think they are trying to see if it works long-term. That is still in the air because of QBs like RG3, who can run the pistol effectively.

You are right in that he is very smart with the ball. He doesn't fumble much, he's been very accurate with his passes (aside from a few downfield passes that have been just out of reach) & he protects the ball well. He's made few mistakes as a rookie & has played overwhelmingly impressive. It amazes me, watching him, how much like a veretan he already looks.

His WRs have made him look bad, stats wise, with dropped passes that hit them on the hands almost every time. That was unbelievably frustrating.

Which brings me to my next point, the two minute drill looked ridiculous Sunday. This I blame on the Shanahans. In the Tampa Bay game, Roberts headseat went out and he called the plays. They team looked urgent, they got to the line quick and played fast. Yesterday the two minute drill looked absolutely terrible. Robert was waiting for the coach to call in the play and it just took way too long. They need to let him run the no huddle. I think he will do a suberb job with it. Quite frankly, I think they need to just let him do his thing, run a no huddle and play a classic pro style offense. Everyones talking about Luck this week, give me a break. First of all, Luck throws 50 times a game. If robert threw 50 times a game, hed have similar stats. Secondly, the Colts have the absolute worst schedule in the NFL. Dolphins, Titans, Vikings, Jaguars, they havent played any tough defneses except the Bears, and the Packers defense sucks so Im not even saying them. Roberts had to play Giants, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Rams (yes the rams have an amazing defense), even Cincinatti. All good defenses. People are just blowing the whole week 9 Luck performance out of proportion. Yes hes great, and I think he will be a future HOFer (I think RG3 will too), but come on man, when you throw 48 times in a game, 433 yards, is what should be expected. Let Griffin run the pro. The kid takes care of the ball so well. all the other rookie QBs have double digit INT's. Grif has 3! He is smart with the ball, let him play. I think his no-huddle would be very up-tempo.

I also agree with this. I would love to see RG3 run a no-huddle offense. I am very confident that he could handle such a task well. Exceedingly well, in fact. I think, if we give them time, we'll be running that offense soon.

The 2-minute drill has been dreadful. A severe lack of urgency. The goalline 4th down was horrendous. The entire defense knew what we were running & with our sorry blocking, it was easy to stop us.

Honestly, I'm not so worried about getting RG3 into a "pro" style offense. That will come in due time. As you said, no one has figured him out & I'm not sure anyone will be able to, given we surround him with the right personnel. But as long as WRs continue to drop balls placed right their hands, nothing he does, short of gaining all the yardage himself, is going to amount to much.

So far, I'm very happy with RG3. Not so much with how the Redskins have not put him in better situations to succeed.

---------- Post added November-8th-2012 at 01:03 AM ----------

If it were up to me, the latter would be gone at season's end, replaced by Norv Turner, fresh of off his inevitable firing in San Diego. I know we all hate Norv, but he can run an offense.

I cannot tell you how absolutely thankful I am that it is NOT up to you.

All I know is that now that you've said that, I hope Snyder gets his can of Norv-Away out & sprays the whole area with it. Good grief, Norv Turner.

I hope you paid good money for that stuff you're smokin' cause it is destroying your brain.

Norv Turner.

[Enter Apotheosis]

BobGriffin is my new favorite poster.

[Bacon]

I cannot tell you how absolutely thankful I am that it is NOT up to you.

All I know is that now that you've said that, I hope Snyder gets his can of Norv-Away out & sprays the whole area with it. Good grief, Norv Turner.

I hope you paid good money for that stuff you're smokin' cause it is destroying your brain.

Norv Turner.

Norv Turner, strictly as an OC, would be an upgrade over Kyle Shanahan. I don't know what's particularly inflammatory or false about this statement. Norv's offenses have and will consistently perform better than Kyle's, as he is a superior play caller.

Anyone who claims Norv would be an upgrade over Mike S deserves a 2 week ban.

[Dallsux]

Norv Turner, strictly as an OC, would be an upgrade over Kyle Shanahan. I don't know what's particularly inflammatory or false about this statement. Norv's offenses have and will consistently perform better than Kyle's, as he is a superior play caller.

Anyone who claims Norv would be an upgrade over Mike S deserves a 2 week ban.

I know you're a little young, but didn't realize you are too young to remember the absolute abyssmal job he did here for 7 solid years. I would be very surprised if he is even welcome back in the city.

Honestly, even considering him as an OC is a frightening thought. It won't happen, so you can lay that idea to rest (along with Norv Turner's career).

We lost to the Jets 3-0 1 year with Norv Turner. The Jets were terrible that year. I think we crossed the 50 yard line once the entire game. It was one of the most embarrassing times as a Redskins fan I can remember. If we hired that man back as anything for any reason, there would be ALOT of ticked off Redskins fans. You may think he's upgrade for OC, but not here.

Not ever.

Again.

No.

[Bacon]

Well, that was why I prefaced my statement with "we all hate Norv." I certainly do remember.

To be perfectly honest, my fandom started right as the Norv years turned from bad to middling (1996), so I remember those mediocre years and the one playoff win it brought, and perhaps that's why my rage is slightly muted. It was absurd that we gave him an HC opportunity, as it minimized his talents as an OC (though our average rank in PPG during his tenure was 14th, which is better than what we would expect from a Skins offense these days), and it was equally moronic in SD. He can't manage a game properly with all of its facets (challenges, clock management, leadership on the sideline, and so on).

Besides the bad blood, the primary reason I would be concerned about Norv at OC is that his passing schemes are, to say the least, outdated. A lot of time has passed since 1993 and much has been done to gameplan for his schemes. I would much prefer that we find some young, upstart talent who can cling to this organization and grow with it, but it's more interesting to speculate about names we're all familiar with. There will be a great deal of speculation about where he goes when this season ends, and our name will pop up in the media, along with Dallas'. It's inevitable.

But, rest assured, I'm not picky at this stage. We had our OC sending RG3 deep a few weeks ago, and last week surrendering a great rushing attack in order to force a comeback through the air. It's evaluation time and, like many in this thread, I'm legitimately concerned that Kyle's play calling is stunting the growth of our greatest weapon. If he is still treating RG3 like a player he created in Madden by season's end, I don't see why he should stick around. I hope that he evaluates himself over the bye and adjusts accordingly. As tempting as it is to emphasize RG3's skills, that doesn't mean we need to run a pass-first offense with our current personnel.

[Zazzaro703]

I don't see why we dont use more of the 2 minute drill type no huddle offense on a series or two. The quick pace coupled with limited substitutions causes breakdowns which plays right to our QBs strengths.

[redskins4ever28]

The answer is very simple


1. Even though he has been playing great Robert Griffin is a rookie from a system that is unlike anything in the NFL. Given this, traditional drop back passing and traditional sets are not his forte yet. He isn't as comfortable executing in that environment.

2. These 'gimmicks" are a very effective one. We simply run few designed qb option runs and then mix in play actions off the QB run looks. The defense now has to read the RB as well as the QB. This slows the LBs from getting back into their drops even more than a regular play action. That is why we have so many completions in the middle of the field. It's not like RG3 is running this at a navy like pace 30+ times a game. We might actually run with it 10-15 times and RG3 might run himself 3-4 times. (designed runs that is)

3. Our receivers as they stand don't scare anyone and without the help of the play action freezing the defense have a hard time getting open. So in must pass situation where a play action would not be respected guess what? We struggle because of this and point number 1.

4. Along with point 1 and 3 our oline sucks at straight up pass protection. When the rush is slowed by reading the run on the play action they are fine. When the defense knows we have to pass and we do, they get blown up.

To summarize have a rookie qb, average at best receivers, and a oline that sucks at pass pro. Our pass game really should be abysmal. The "gimmick" saves us from that.

Our offense is great when

A. We are ahead/the game is close enough to where the run will be respected
B. When we are ahead of the down and distance (run threat is still there)
C. The run game is actually working (which is usually the case)

The offense is bad when
A. We are in catch up mode forcing RG3 to face must pass situations.
B. We are behind down and distance due to a penalty ( and we lead the league in those)
C. We are behind down and distance due to a TFL or incompletion forcing us into a 3rd and long

when you factor in the historically bad defense we are often in the bad situation A.
when you factor in the least disciplined team in the league we are often in bad situation B.

I feel as though the offense has performed admirably given these circumstances. If you feel differently then you obviously are not taking into account all of the variables.

Very good points BobGriffin. I will say the one point that worries me is that why is the offense bad when we are forcing Rg3 to pass more? Most elite QBs are great when they are forced to pass. I know our WRs are trash, but my opinion is the playcalling/formations. If we were to go true pro style or let RG3 run his own offense like Luck is doing, I think Grif would have his own 400+yd games etc;
Shannys need to back down from the gimmicks, and unleash this guy.

[BobGriffin]

Very good points BobGriffin. I will say the one point that worries me is that why is the offense bad when we are forcing Rg3 to pass more? Most elite QBs are great when they are forced to pass. I know our WRs are trash, but my opinion is the playcalling/formations. If we were to go true pro style or let RG3 run his own offense like Luck is doing, I think Grif would have his own 400+yd games etc;
Shannys need to back down from the gimmicks, and unleash this guy.

Robert Griffin made reads while he was college. However, they where not NFL passing attack style reads. They were zone reads where he read the LBs and DEs and decided to give to the RB keep it himself or throw it. Not saying he is incapable of operating a traditional passing attack but he does not have the experience in it to go along with protection problems and average receivers that don't catch the ball consistently.

Luck however has operating an NFL style offense his entire collegiate career complete with Luck given (and excelling at) the capacity to scan the field make pre-snap reads and audible into favorable plays. Robert has all the physical tools to be a great pocket passer but given the state of the offense and defense it wouldn't be wise to just "throw him out there" unless you guys want to watch us get annihilated.

[redskins4ever28]

Robert Griffin made reads while he was college. However, they where not NFL passing attack style reads. They were zone reads where he read the LBs and DEs and decided to give to the RB keep it himself or throw it. Not saying he is incapable of operating a traditional passing attack but he does not have the experience in it to go along with protection problems and average receivers that don't catch the ball consistently.

Luck however has operating an NFL style offense his entire collegiate career complete with Luck given (and excelling at) the capacity to scan the field make pre-snap reads and audible into favorable plays. Robert has all the physical tools to be a great pocket passer but given the state of the offense and defense it wouldn't be wise to just "throw him out there" unless you guys want to watch us get annihilated.

But what better way to learn then to throw him out there? The seasons all but over, we may as well let him throw it 45-50 times a game like they are doing with luck and see what it brings us

[beachboy757]

But what better way to learn then to throw him out there? The seasons all but over, we may as well let him throw it 45-50 times a game like they are doing with luck and see what it brings us

We don't have to throw 45-50 times a game, because we are the #2 rushing team in the league. The only way you will see us throwing 50 times a game or 400+ yards is if we are down 2 or three scores. For anyone worried about Robert being able to make "NFL" throws, go back to the Pittsburgh game when it was 4 & goal, no one in the backfield, and then ROB throws that TD in the middle of a clogged defense. It's the throws like that the make me smile and know he is something special.

The drop backs and 30/40 yard strikes will come, but first the coaches have to fine tune what he is good at and then expand from there.

[shakinaiken]

they need more balance on offense. more traditional sets, mixed with the zone read. also, when we need to incorporate the hurry up offense when we have a defense back peddling and let RG3 throw the ball into the end zone when we are in the red zone.

i really want to see RG3 have a 4 TD (passing) performance against the eagles

I think the reason our offense appears so gimmicky is because we don't have to talent on the O-line or skill positions, to line up in traditional sets and gash defenses. this seemed particularly evident in the Carolina game, where since we were a down a couple of scores, had to transition to a normal drop back passing game. and the result? not very inspiring. the o-line couldn't block, recievers couldn't consistently get open, and Rg3 looked jittery and indecisive.

to be honest, I'm impressed with what Kyle has been able to produce with this offense.

[rk3025]

Give RG3 a fast offense to operate so they can make more third downs. and scores.