Kilmer17's roadmap to fix the GOP

[Larry]

The GOP running minority candidates on a national level is putting a band-aid on a gun shot wound and hoping that it stops the bleeding.

The problems with the GOP has with minority and women voters goes much deeper than the lack of diversity on the ballot. Those are the issues the party must fix first.

Agree.

"If we only had a token on the ballot" is the extension of "they only vote for Obama cause he's black" fantasy.

[alexey]

GOP should embrace the separation of Church and State

[Predicto]

This may not be the right time for this, but I heard a joke that kind of summed up the GOP's current problems.

You know your party is in trouble when people ask you: "Say, did that old rape guy win his race," and you have to ask - which one?

[youngestson]

Disassociate themselves from the Tea Party.

The Tea Party is scary as hell to me.

I think the GOP has effectively neutralized the Tea Party by making it a wholly owned subsidiary.

[deejaydana]

Admiring the irony of someone suggesting that the GOP needs to field a token who's a member of the target race, so they can address the evils of identity politics that The Other Guys use.

I will also observe that the last time the GOP said "get me a member of (demographic group we want to vote for us), they picked Sarah Palin.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 04:50 PM ----------



I wouldn't be so sure about ruling out Rubio or Christie in the GOP primaries.

I will observe that Romney has shown that it is possible for the GOP voters to put "electable" on their list of qualifications.

(And it helps if he's got more money than all the other candidates combined, too.)

I didn't mention the need to reach out and include minorities by doing so with 'token' members or for them to do so in an insincere manner. I would think that after what was an enjoyable win you could pare back your cynicism but I guess I counted wrong. You really have to have a devil to chase down in your every day approach to politics. It must be exhausting to be you.

[Bang]

Absolutely must get rid of the propaganda media being as aggressive as it is.
IMO, that is the first thing to do to accomplish Kilmers Point #1.


People CAN think. Give people conservative commentary and perspective on their outlets, sure.
But on it's own TRUE conservative principals can stand as viable ideas without the need to embellish (to put it kindly), or go off the deeeeeep end religiously.
TRUE conservative thinking can present plenty of talk and debate without going crazy, or dipping into the social agendas that clearly go against the conservative ideal of "less government intrusion into personal lives".
There are plenty of ways to bring about ideas for reform or change of the governmental programs or workings that they are against.
Turn off rush, turn off Hannity, turn off the ranters and ravers. Find real thinkers and let them think their real thoughts.
It would benefit us all.

~Bang

[Duckus]

If watching Fox News the last 24hrs on and off is any indication the GOP is going to go in exactly the opposite direction Kilmer and SHF suggested here.

[HOF44]

Like Bang said, for the GOP to win the big one Fox and Rush and their ilk needs to tone it the heck down. They inflame the wing nuts.

[No Excuses]

If watching Fox News the last 24hrs on and off is any indication the GOP is going to go in exactly the opposite direction Kilmer and SHF suggested here.

I'm watching right now and I agree.

I just don't see how you survive the GOP primaries with the platform laid out by Kilmer. You would be tarred and feathered as a RHINO and booed out of the debate hall.

PS: Charles Krauthammer makes me wish I were deaf.

[Yusuf06]

...Make your case to everyone. It's rumored that Paul Ryan wanted to go into black neighborhoods and make the conservative case, but Romney's folks said no. I'll never run for office, but if I did this would be one of major campaign themes. It's absolutely stupid that we don't appear desperate for Black votes. That doesn't mean you cave. It means that you show people that you're genuinely trying. Give them a reason to listen. When they tell you to f-off, come back again, and again, and again. You will earn respect if you work for it and you're genuine. People here don't necessarily like Paul Ryan, but I do and I believe he's a really genuine guy.

I did a road trip out to the far reaches of the state today and had a fair amount of time to think about the election results. I also did something I rarely do which is to turn on Rush DopeBaugh to get a good chuckle out of the whining, wailing and knashing of teeth. He didn't disappoint. In spite of that he made a few good points though he didn't take any time to ponder or explore the implications of them. Since Rush's stock in trade is demagoguerey and not thoughtful commentary, I'll take the liberty of handling this for him. *Disclaimer* The comments attributed to Limbaugh below are from memory and are paraphrased, not direct quotes.

Either the polls were wrong/manipulated, there was election fraud, or the numbers and/or demographics are against the GOP. After teasing with the former reasons for a while, Rush finally came around to admitting that they just don't have the majority opinion in this country any more. Of course he painted this in much the same light as RMoney did behind closed doors, i.e. "There's just too many people that have bought into the idea of a handout nowadays."

My take is that yes, the numbers are against them but that's a function of the GOP being out of touch on a variety of things. First, they followed the Tea Party's lead and cleansed the party of RINOS and anyone else that wasn't willing to toe the party line without question. And so an already smallish tent got just a bit smaller. At some point when you push enough people outside the tent you end up with a base that's too small to do anything.

Another reason has to do with why I now call the GOP the "Grand Oligarch's Party". I don't do that just for the heck of it but rather because of their support for a host of policies that only serve to create/increase economic inequality. The GOP is completely blind to the hardening of social class lines and the lack of upward mobility in this country. The idea that a worker doing the work of 1.5 to 2 people (or more) should be happy scraping by while his/her boss is making 2-300 times as much as s/he is, and paying a lower effective tax rate to boot is somehow OK is quite frankly a non-starter for most middle class people and it will only serve as an albatross around the party's neck in the future. Too bad the "job creators" that run the GOP and the ultra wealthy that poured billions into trying to get RMoney elected won't stand for any compromise on this issue.

The left and center consider many conservative positions to be bigoted and/or not inclusive. To some degree he has a point here as I don't think many conservative positions are bigoted or racist on their face. However the problem isn't with their beliefs per se, it's with the perception and changing perception can be an awfully difficult proposition. Just trotting your multiple car elevator, canapés eating, dressage horse having ass out to the inner city and spouting off about hard work and personal responsibility just ain't gonna cut it because of the credibility gap. It's awfully hard to buy into Romney/Ryan's line when you know he knows nothing about your life or where you've come from. Anyone remember the "Just borrow money from your parents" line? Talk about out of touch. Sure Ryan's Dad died when he was young and his family struggled a bit (nevermind that he benefitted from GUBMENT Social Security survivor benefits) but I seriously doubt he ever had to pull roaches out of his ear, negotiate his way through a substandard school filled with malcontents, eat mayonnaise sandwiches or ever have to wonder if he didn't get that job he needed to feed his kids because he's Black or female or Latino, etc.

So it's about more than race/ethnicity, it's about credibility and actually understanding what the real people you're asking to vote for you deal with on a daily basis. Many Blacks, Latinos and others have genuinely benefitted from many of the programs the GOP wants to get rid of, not to get a second boat but just to keep food in their stomachs or keep the lights on. So if Obama had been lilly white RMoney and Ryan would still have not had a snowball's chance in hell of getting many minority votes because too many people have had these "wasteful" programs benefit them personally. It's been like that seemingly forever and IMHO the only way to change it is to actually get out there and start doing something with poor people to improve their lives....you know, getting your hands dirty with community organizing type stuff...that the GOP on Obama for, remember? So for example, maybe if RMoney had been able to say that instead of just giving a bunch of money to the (allegedly) no longer racist Mormon church, he'd personally organized and run programs to teach poor folks how to start and run a business, he and his ideas might have had enough credibility to start siphoning off some of the minority vote. As it stands, he and most of these guys have got nothing in the credibility department and that's pretty much what RMoney got vote-wise as a result.

Chris Christie is a turncoat.See my comments about RINOs above. The primary process is designed to weed out reasonable, moderate party members and winnow things down to just the "true believers". This is true of both parties BTW. Personally I'd like to see us do away with primaries altogether and instead go with a system of instant-runoff voting. It would give independents a real shot at winning and would appropriately marginalize the lunatic fringe on both sides.

From my standpoint as a right leaning independent, Obama was/is a great candidate because where the far-right tries to paint him as a socialist, and the far-left sees him as a Republican in Dem clothing, I see him as a pragmatic centrist, just the kind of candidate I want to be able to support every time.

Obama won in spite of a poor economy. This one is the kicker. Why? Because this fact (assuming one is a reasonably competent and insightful person) should lead to the obvious question, "What the hell are we doing so wrong that we couldn't unseat a POTUS who has presided over such weak economic growth?" Now aside from the fact that at least a decent percentage of the voters understood that a recession caused by a financial system collapse is nothing like a typical cyclical recession, it should still make a reasonable person wonder how they could have missed out on what should have been a slam dunk victory?" That the GOP will probably only ask this question in rhetorical fashion so as to be able to tell themselves what they want to hear, i.e. RMoney wasn't conservative enough is the reason Hill Dog will likely get an easy victory against Barry Goldwater part deux in 2016 if she's still interested in the gig.

So as I see it the GOP finds itself in a lose-lose position going forward. They can either double down on the foolishness they've gone with over the past few elections and slowly wither away into obscurity or they can change into a more inclusive, less dogma dominated party which amounts to "destroying" the party for most that now inhabit it. How tragic for them.

My problem is that the GOP doesn't have a "fiscal conservative agenda".

There wasn't a single GOP candidate for President who wasn't promising another huge tax cut on the rich.

What the GOP has is a "pass big tax cuts, increase military spending, act surprised when the deficit goes up, and demand that somebody else get rid of SS and Medicare, because of this deficit that somehow got here" agenda.

QFT. This is one of the other reasons I left the GOP. It used to be that conservative meant something more than being a far-right wing nutjob who wants to abolish the Federal Reserve. It used to mean in part avoiding profligacy, not just with government resources but with your own as well. The GOP (and most Americans in general) has gone from "waste not, want not" to "WAAAAAAH, oil/gas is too expensive and I'm entitled to cheap gas so I can keep driving a big SUV I don't need." Don't get me wrong, I don't really care what others do with their money and I'm not a tree hugger per se. It's just that I see the entitlement mindset regarding certain issues on the right as no different than on the left. It's just amusing that they see the "There's always more where that came from" mentality as somehow "conservative".

Interestingly, I work mostly with very conservative folks a lot of whom have their salaries partially or fully subsidized by government grants. I can't tell you how hard I laughed a few weeks ago when we announced that due to current and potential future spending cuts we were going to have to tighten down certain program requirements so that we could be sure that our program would be meeting our deliverables, i.e. their employers wouldn't be getting a free FTE that they could assign to other tasks while leaving our program deliverables unmet. You wouldn't believe how heated things got. During all the rancor, it was all I could do to keep from busting out into a grin and I had to work really hard to resist the urge to throw out the old Tea Party missive "But, we're going broke. We can't afford it!". Mind you, these are people that I genuinely like and respect a great deal and that I really do NOT want to see let go. It was just the super rich irony that gave me the urge to react that way.

[s0crates]

Echoing your statements this is what I posted last night on my facebook wall

1) Embrace the liberty movement. Ron Paul isn't the enemy. In fact he is probably the smartest guy from either party

2) Embrace free-market populism. Ditch corporate welfare. Wall Street isn't a friend, its an enemy. Focus on middle class tax cuts (payroll taxes a good place to start) and focus on small businesses (credit goes to Luckydevil)

3) Go back to a sane foreign policy. With President Obama cementing the warfare state, now is the opportunity to become the party of limited foreign engagement again. I.E ditch the neo-cons.

4) Go easy on social issue. Hey I got no problem with pro life views, but bringing rape into the thing is just plain dumb.

5) Figure out a reasonable immigration policy. Saying "kick them all out" is idiotic. This is something that George W. Bush actually got right

I would add that really figuring out a way to get young voters out of the entitlement system will go a very long way

I was with you until the entitlement bit at the end.

Social security is not an entitlement, it is something people paid for out of their own pockets. Veterans benefits are not an entitlement either, it is something that was earned by the men and women who served this country. The pensions of government workers, like postal workers for example, they were something earned and promised.

Maybe you could say pell grants and student loans are entitlements, but education really is an investment worth making.

Welfare is a serious issue that needs more reform, but I also think the right refuses to acknowledge that the number of people on it have gone down over the last four years.

Other than the entitlement thing, I agree with you though. The GOP needs to appeal to somebody besides old white men. I think the rest of what you have outline would help accomplish that.

[Elessar78]

1- Stop being the party of stupid. You dont get to nominate Senatorial candidates like Christine Odonnel, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller (The GOP got LUCKY that Alaska has smart people voting in the general), Mourdock, Akin etc etc etc and expect to win. Crazy people scare sane people. Even if they agree with the overwhelming majority of their views, if a candidate scares voters, they wont win. It's time that GOP candidates in primaries start calling out the stupid scary ones.

2- Abortion. It's over. You lost this battle years ago. And the party already knows this. You know how I know this? Because if they really wanted to, they would have legislated it away when they had the chances. (MULTIPLE). It's a stupid, insignificant issue. But one that about 25 percent of the women vote feels is the MOST important. It's time to adopt the Clinton mantra- It should be safe, legal and rare. ANd for the love of all that is holy, no male GOP candidate shou;d ever use the word "rape" in a sentence again.

3- Immigration- If Romney matches McCains numbers with Hispanics, he wins. If he matched Bush's numbers, he wins a landslide. Reagan understood this. Why is it that the party that idolizes Reagan refuses to follow him? It's time to accept the consequences. The GOP should come out tomorrow with a proposal of immediate amnesty, and make their own dream act even farther to "the left".

4- Continue to fight like hell on spending and taxes. It's the one area that they consistantly win across the board. But dont be stupid (again). If you can win small battles, win them. The GOP should take Simpson Bowles in it's entirety to the POTUS and beat him over the head with it. Warts and all. It's not perfect, but it's a start. And if they FULLY stand behind it, there is no way the President and Dems could win a fight against it.

The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important.

wow. I agree with much of what you say.

On immigration, helps that the other three came from states where "enlightenment" was an asset. Growing up in Michigan and governing MA, you prob don't get well versed in "other people".

Abortion, I agree.

You know that Simpson bowles has a 15% cut in defense spending right? I think it's gonna happen in the second term because,what does he have to worry about?

So end the anti-intellectualism, stop being xenophobic, be fiscally CONSERVATIVE (and that means stick to it and no more blowing up the deficit).

I do think you have to treat taxes as a tool and use it in both directions to accomplish the role of gov't. There's nothing wrong with saying we won't raise taxes unless we really have to. Basically you'll end up with what the conservative party SHOULD be about. That's one I would vote for too.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I was with you until the entitlement bit at the end.

Social security is not an entitlement, it is something people paid for out of their own pockets. Veterans benefits are not an entitlement either, it is something that was earned by the men and women who served this country. The pensions of government workers, like postal workers for example, they were something earned and promised.

Maybe you could say pell grants and student loans are an entitlements, but education really is an investment worth making.

Welfare is a serious issue that needs reform, but I think the right refuses to acknowledge that the number of people on it have gone down over the last four years.

Other than the entitlement thing, I agree with you though. The GOP needs to appeal to somebody besides old white men,

1) For those of us our age (being right around 30 and below) we are paying into a system which will give us nothing in 30 years. Our employers are paying just as much.

You want to truly reform Social Security and Medicare, make it solvent AND reduce unemployment for millenials? Provide an opt out option for us. At age 30 you have a choice, stay in the system or get out.

The drivers of our national insolvency is SSI, Medicare A, B and D, Medicaid, and soon to be ACA.

If they are not reformed this coming year, its a wrap. And reform isn't making people wait till age 72 to get their SSI, the system truly needs major adjustments or else we'll be asking for 100% in tax rates for those making 100k or above by 2040.

2) Agree on education and we hardly spend anything on it (65 billion to DEA, thats nothing)

3) Welfare was reformed in the mid 1990s by Newt and Bill. Nothing else needs to be done there


One more thing I forgot about

Republicans have to become serious about school choice. I posted an article several years ago about it how the DC opportunity scholarship cost DC LESS to send kids to private schools as opposed to the public school system.

The President cut this program in his first budget.

R's did absolutely nothing about it.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthre...oucher-program

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthre...oucher-Program

[Elessar78]

Originally Posted by Larry
My problem is that the GOP doesn't have a "fiscal conservative agenda".

There wasn't a single GOP candidate for President who wasn't promising another huge tax cut on the rich.

What the GOP has is a "pass big tax cuts, increase military spending, act surprised when the deficit goes up, and demand that somebody else get rid of SS and Medicare, because of this deficit that somehow got here" agenda.

I'll just add that I think the GOP has become the "mouth piece" of the super rich like the Koch brothers and other "poorer" equivalents and EVERYTHING they stand for these days is all about rounding up votes so the rich guys can keep more of their money. Nothing really to do with abortion, immigration, jobs because no matter what the social and economic climate is these guys already have enough money and will continue to make money and they just want to keep as much of it. Can't fault 'em for that but call it what it is.

[twa]

Obama won in spite of a poor economy. This one is the kicker. Why? Because this fact (assuming one is a reasonably competent and insightful person) should lead to the obvious question, "What the hell are we doing so wrong that we couldn't unseat a POTUS who has presided over such weak economic growth?" .

yet surveys show most Dems oddly enough believe the recovery is going well,and you even have posters here saying it is fixing to expand rapidly....and were afraid Mittens would get the credit.

I think they are delusional