WT: Redskins have some pieces that fit, some that don’t (Haslett quote)

[Renegade7]

He's basically saying the same thing Shanny said concerning evaluations. Even though its not what you want to hear the coaches say out loud per say, its true by just watching or re-watching the games for failed execution and lack of speed/talent on defense. We weren't really able to improve out defense in the offseason and have started to go backward mostly impart to injuries and age. What I'm seeing on defense is move to keep teams in front of us, an it has brought down our yardage and points allowed. It just continues to get beat like a dead horse because injuries on offense are starting to slow down our points scored.

As much as people want to continue to pile on about the defense because of the carolina game, you should be beat someone if you hold them to 21 points at home. You aren't going to beat many if any team only scoring 13 yourself. Haslett can't get creative because his blitzes aren't getting home and his secondary can't cover. Now he looks even worse with the offense starting to slow down. Changing one guy isn't going to make enough of a difference, this problem is that complex...

[RandyHolt]

While both are adept in the pass rush aspect, Ryan, IMHO, has the added ability to not be a huge liability in coverage and can make plays in space better than Rak.

Oh I agree, the candidate to be in coverage of the 2 is Kerrigan. But he still looks a little stiff to me and admittedly, is still learning and adjusting. That's the problem with the 34, drafting 43 guys with your number 1 pick, and kind of hoping they excel in pass coverage.

Without over thinking it, drafting the near best collegiate 4-3 DE and making him a 4-3 LB is probably a dumb idea.

What I dont like, is by making those 2 guys lose so much weight they become speed rushers only, which makes them less dynamic rushing the passer. Speed around the outside over and over is great, but only when you get push up the middle. We get none. We could use a Jumpy Geathers pitchforking OL.

[Chump Bailey]

Speed around the outside over and over is great, but only when you get push up the middle. We get none. We could use a Jumpy Geathers pitchforking OL.

I'm with this line of thinking too, which is why I prefer the 4-3. IMO, we have good personnel to get that crucial push in the middle. We would simply create better matchups overall with our DL acting as the catalyst if we were to employ the 4-3 - IMO.

[skins island connection]

Mahon's might have been refering to the OP, I was refering to the general ES sentiment expressed in these threads.

---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 09:58 PM ----------

You know the difference between this offense and the average to far below average previous Kyle Shanahan Redskin's offenses? Talent spelled: R o b e r t G r i f f i n

---------- Post added November-9th-2012 at 10:00 PM ----------

You know the difference between this offense and the average to far below average previous Kyle Shanahan Redskin's offenses? Talent spelled: R o b e r t G r i f f i n

I can't dispute the issue with Kyle, but he is a young OC, and yes I did question his credentials, but you also have to look at what we had last year at QB; Rex Grossman, who was far below average at his skill.
Haslett's case is different; he's BEEN to numerous teams, and never stuck with one because he never did any good with any of them; and as you see where his schemes are porous, if you can call vanilla a scheme, he doesn't have any creativity to at least partially cover up a weakness.

Kyle is young, and hopefully he will learn; Haslett has been doing this for over a decade, and has failed. Its time to cut him loose...

[cphil006]

The worst years Pittsburgh had on defense were the couple of years Haslett "coached" them...

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Oh I agree, the candidate to be in coverage of the 2 is Kerrigan. But he still looks a little stiff to me and admittedly, is still learning and adjusting. That's the problem with the 34, drafting 43 guys with your number 1 pick, and kind of hoping they excel in pass coverage.
.

So what does every other 3-4 team do? You do realize that only about 3 or 4 teams in CFB play the 3-4 right? How are they getting their 3-4 players? Why are we the only team that can't convert a 3-4? Oh right, the other 3-4 teams don't have Jim Haslett coaching.

Why are the Colts top 10 in defense pretty much converting their long-time 4-3 cover 2 defense into a 3-4? They didn't even add anyone of note. Because Chuck Pagano and Greg Manusky, who have produced quality 3-4 defenses in Baltimore and San Diego, are better than Jim Haslett.

Again, this is pure biased ignorance. The 3-4 is not the problem. The man coaching it is.

[redskinss]

im sure this has already been mentioned but the biggest thing for me about firing him now is that yes i agree that it wont help our defense this year at least it eliminates any chance of him improving the defense a little and getting another chance next year because of it.

somebody mentioned last night on around the horn that the lakers coach got fired so early because they have a 6 game home streak coming up and they feared they may win most of those and it would be a little fools gold, they knew it wasnt going to work and they cut ties, thats how i feel about haslett.

cut ties now so theres no chance of getting any fools gold for the rest of this season.

[The Tris]

Some counter arguments from Smart Football than might be analogous.

NFL as league of talent over scheme: in past 2 years Jags and Falcons have had same O coaches (effectively) in Mularkey and Dirk Koetter...

Re: Falcons/Jags: As Buffett said, when mgmt w/ reputation for brilliance meets a biz with rep for bad fundamentals, it's biz who keeps rep

DVOA OFF:

2011 ATL (Mularkey) 12
2012 ATL (Koetter) 8

2011 JAC (Koetter) 31
2012 JAC (Mularkey) 31

Now this might be more an argument that even a good coach can't do much with poor talent, but the point is the same - talent weighs more than coaching.

I don't think Haslett is even an average coach, but we are too determined to make this an either/or issue. We need a new DC and improved personnel. Only addressing one is a recipe for mediocrity.

[Oldfan]

...I don't think Haslett is even an average coach, but we are too determined to make this an either/or issue. We need a new DC and improved personnel. Only addressing one is a recipe for mediocrity.

My estimate is 80/20 -- talent-to-coaching in the importance ratio. I see below average talent and below average coaching. But, there's no gain to be made firing Haslett until we have a much better replacement willing to take the job. That's the tricky part. I lack sufficient evidence to grade our options.

[CjSuAvE22]

Just face it we screwed up our secondary by letting 22 and 30 go.....just face the facts people it wasnt rocket science we had nobody to replace them...maybe now as fans we should realize the worth of our own...if D hall is let go like many of you would like all be it hes a head case WHO is going to replace him.

[The Tris]

My estimate is 80/20 -- talent-to-coaching in the importance ratio. I see below average talent and below average coaching. But, there's no gain to be made firing Haslett until we have a much better replacement willing to take the job. That's the tricky part. I lack sufficient evidence to grade our options.

Firing Haslett midseason would only bring catharsis. There is no option (much less better) on staff or on the street at the moment.

Prudence calls for playing out the string, and having a formal interview process in the offseason with successful 3-4 coordinators or 3-4 positional coaches. Then having that person on staff to evaluate the roster and assist in free agent signings and draft selections.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 01:53 PM ----------

Just face it we screwed up our secondary by letting 22 and 30 go.....just face the facts people it wasnt rocket science we had nobody to replace them...maybe now as fans we should realize the worth of our own...if D hall is let go like many of you would like all be it hes a head case WHO is going to replace him.

According to PFF, Landry is a worse rated SS than Doughy or Gomes. GOMES!

[RandyHolt]

So what does every other 3-4 team do? You do realize that only about 3 or 4 teams in CFB play the 3-4 right? How are they getting their 3-4 players? Why are we the only team that can't convert a 3-4? Oh right, the other 3-4 teams don't have Jim Haslett coaching.

Why are the Colts top 10 in defense pretty much converting their long-time 4-3 cover 2 defense into a 3-4? They didn't even add anyone of note. Because Chuck Pagano and Greg Manusky, who have produced quality 3-4 defenses in Baltimore and San Diego, are better than Jim Haslett.

Again, this is pure biased ignorance. The 3-4 is not the problem. The man coaching it is.

Your post is all pure based speculation.

Our talent in the backfield is lacking. Fletch has slowed. We don't feature a heavy NT. We dont even know if Haslet has full control on game day.

Make no mistake that I want Haslet upgraded. But if he doesn't get replaced, and there are no signs whatsoever pointing to it happening, what is grinding on your nerves if posters want to speculate if maybe the 43 may be a better fit for us now.

Don't we show a lot of 4-3 fronts, or looks? I know we did last year.

Why do we do that, could it be its a better fit for us? Maybe, enough for people to talk about without being labeled ignorant?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Make no mistake that I want Haslet upgraded. But if he doesn't get replaced, and there are no signs whatsoever pointing to it happening, what is grinding on your nerves if posters want to speculate if maybe the 43 may be a better fit for us now.

Because it's just that - speculation. You keep saying that we made a mistake by "converting 4-3 ends into 3-4 linebackers" - every 3-4 team does that. Cofield isn't the biggest NT in the world, but not every successful 3-4 team has a 350 pound behemoth manning the position.

Don't we show a lot of 4-3 fronts, or looks? I know we did last year.

Yes, but how will more 4-3 looks help? Jenkins, Cofield and Bowen have changed themselves physically to fit the 3-4. We're missing a rush end and Kerrigan is a bit too light to play DE atm. We don't have a legitimate 4-3 LE on the roster atm. The roster is a 3-4 roster right now. So why should we go back? It's not like we're going to hire the 4-3 version of Chuck Pagano who coached a Super Bowl caliber defense in Baltimore.

How will going 4-3 improve the backend?

Why do we do that, could it be its a better fit for us? Maybe, enough for people to talk about without being labeled ignorant?

Your evidence for "it could be a better fit for us is" that "I hated it from the beginning, and our defensive struggles mean it's obviously the FRONT as opposed to every other factor involved!". You're not being objective, because you haven't given an objective reason we could be a better 4-3 team than a 3-4 team.

[skinzplay]

Haslett should be happy that he has a job coaching in the NFL. There's a reason he was coaching in a now-defunct league. Next season, he will either be coaching at the college level or working as a linebacker coach in the NFL. No more coordinator jobs for him, and certainly no head coaching jobs.

[skins island connection]

The common denominator in this duiscussion is Haslett. Bottom line is, he wasn't any good any other place he was at, and the same is certainly rearing its ugly head here.
Regardless of whether we switched to a 4-3 or stayed at 3-4, Haslett is NOT the guy for the job. The season is on the brink of being mathematically eliminated from any playoffs, so its not going to hurt anything whatsoever to let him go now.

Does anyone actually believe he will be able to do better with better players? Ask Pittsburgh, they'll be glad to tell you...