Fox NFL Sunday via Jay Glazer: Dan Snyder not Happy with Coach Shanahan's Comments After Carolina Game.

[DC9]

Gibbs left the team with an aging team where the inmates ran the asylum, in a situation where the players would pretty much only play for him---guys like Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rodgers and LaRon Landry all more or less quit and wanted out of town once Gibbs left. Gibbs did not deliver unto Dan Snyder a playoff capable team; he handed him a team teetering on the ragged edge of irrelevancy that only needed the tiniest of shoves to fall off a ****ing cliff, and the age of the team and the injuries to key players destroyed the whole team over the course of two years. Pretending Gibbs left the Redskins with a team ready for a run is misguided, if not flat out wrong. Gibbs was a great man, but he was also a short-sighted man, a man who could motivate average players to do really good things, but who had lost the ability to develop really good talent to do great things. That we somehow made the playoffs is a testament to his ability to motivate, but the depths to which the team fell is also a testament to his lack of foresight and inability to build a team that could win now, and in the future.

Take off the burgundy colored glasses for a while and you're realize that while Gibbs was a great man, he left this organization just as it's foundation was cracking and about to come tumbling right the **** down.

NLC, I agree with you on everything except this statement. I think with the right coach (who knows, maybe Greg Williams?) that 2008 team could've made a playoff run. Not a deep run, but a run nonetheless. The issue we ran into with that team (aside from guys breaking down at the midway point) was the lack of adjustments made by Zorn in the second half of the season. The book was out on him and he never adjusted. We could see it coming after the Steelers game, the Ravens game, and into the rest of the games that year and 2009. Zorn was a terrible coach and so predictable I think we all knew where the ball was going on offense. That said, in 2009 we would've stunk regardless... maybe 5-6 wins at the most.

But I don't disagree with your comments on Gibbs leaving. However, that also goes into my reasoning for 2008 being a "decent" season with the right coach. But agree that there was no long term success that should've been expected out of that group at all.

If "if's and but's were candy and nuts."

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

So you were okay with the Head Coach of this team saying that we were in "evaluation mode" and packing in the rest of the season?

So he said we were packing it in for the season?

[DC9]

So he said we were packing it in for the season?

the quotes were around what was said...

[Thinking Skins]

Competition is the one thing that Shanahan has brought to the on-field product. Robinson earned his spot on this team by beating out Anthony Armstrong (the team's #2 WR in 2010) and Terrence Austin (a former Shanahan draft pick). Leonard Hankerson worked his way up from not dressing to part-time player to rotational starter. He wasn't given anything. Shanahan has inserted youngsters over veterans based on merit, not injury (Lichtensteiger over Derrick Dockery, Perry Riley over Rocky McIntosh, Darrell Young over Mike Sellers, pre-injury Hankerson over Gaffney/Moss in 2011). I don't get your complaints on this one.

Uh, maybe we're remembering things differently. Dockery was playing decent and he was benched for Kory not because of competition but because of personal preference. In fact, you can look at the archives on here, Kory was playing HORRIBLE that year, strait missing blocks. Its amazign that McNabb didn't get killed that year. Same goes for Jamaal Brown given the job at RT. Same goes for Perry Riley. McIntosh wasn't outplayed, Riley just became the starter one day after we had decided that we didn't want Rocky any more.Same goes for Young. How many FBs did we bring in? None, or should I say one. And he got the job.

We did bring in WRs, but ask yourself how are our rookie FA WRs doing? How are our low draft pick FAs doing? Who are our top WRs this year?
Hankerson - the top WR drafted by Shanny
Moss - a veteran he inherited who's been starting for years
Morgan - a free agent he brought in this offseason.
And the guy who's hur, Garcon who was also a free agent addition.

If there's competition we'd see young guys competing for playing time. We'd see them being given a chance. Robinson gets 1/3 of the pass attempts as the other guys. And we cut Austin who looked better than most of these guys. And we can even talk about Stallworth who we just cut after he led the team in recieving yards. Where's the competition there? We have an underperforming unit and yet there's no shakeup in the lineup? Where's the competition?

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 03:02 PM ----------

I didn't say under Mike McCarthy, I said the GB Packers. It's the same idea as the Giants under Ernie Accorsi, who built the foundation for their two SB rosters, but didn't last long enough to see it come to fruition.

That's exactly the point though. They had a crappy coach in Sherman and fired him. McCarthy was a good coach for that franchise and he proved it immediately by going 8-8 and then 13-3. Can't say the same for Shanny.

Even Tom Coughlin with the Giants, who was close to being fired after his third year, had gone 6-10, 11-5, 8-8.
Jim Fassell for the Giants went 10-5-1, 8-8. 7-9.
Dan Reeves went 11-5, 9-7, 5-11

See a pattern here?

[NLC1054]

And we can even talk about Stallworth who we just cut after he led the team in recieving yards. Where's the competition there? We have an underperforming unit and yet there's no shakeup in the lineup? Where's the competition?

You know, I was going to give you a big long rebuttal about why you were wrong, and then I realized you can't even get basic details of what actually happened. Stallworth didn't lead the team in receiving; Gaffney did. And Gaffney, while a decent possession receiver, got no YAC and broke no tackles.

And then there was the whole thing where he embarrassed himself on Twitter for like two days over his wife cheating on him.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 03:41 PM ----------

NLC, I agree with you on everything except this statement. I think with the right coach (who knows, maybe Greg Williams?) that 2008 team could've made a playoff run. Not a deep run, but a run nonetheless. The issue we ran into with that team (aside from guys breaking down at the midway point) was the lack of adjustments made by Zorn in the second half of the season. The book was out on him and he never adjusted. We could see it coming after the Steelers game, the Ravens game, and into the rest of the games that year and 2009. Zorn was a terrible coach and so predictable I think we all knew where the ball was going on offense. That said, in 2009 we would've stunk regardless... maybe 5-6 wins at the most.

But I don't disagree with your comments on Gibbs leaving. However, that also goes into my reasoning for 2008 being a "decent" season with the right coach. But agree that there was no long term success that should've been expected out of that group at all.

If "if's and but's were candy and nuts."

Thing is...you mention Gregg. We all know the scandal he's going through right now. Thing about Gregg was, he wasn't well liked outside the defensive meeting room. Dan interviewed him for the job a bunch of times and decided to move in another direction, and Gregg had a past of being difficult to work with and kind of an *******. He got his defense to respond to him, but I think that offense still would've fell off.

Not that Zorn was the right choice either, but I think the only person who could've done what Gibbs did is Gibbs.

[Thinking Skins]

You know, I was going to give you a big long rebuttal about why you were wrong, and then I realized you can't even get basic details of what actually happened. Stallworth didn't lead the team in receiving; Gaffney did. And Gaffney, while a decent possession receiver, got no YAC and broke no tackles.

And then there was the whole thing where he embarrassed himself on Twitter for like two days over his wife cheating on him.

Ok, Gaffney, point still remains - he didn't get to compete for his job and our WR core could probably use more talent. The key thing was that he caught the ball, YAC don't really matter if you don't make a catch.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 04:38 PM ----------

Hank and Josh Morgan competed all training camp for who would be the Z receiver opposite Garcon, and Aldrick and Hank have basically been competing for who would take the X spot in Garcon's absense. The reason Armstrong and Terrence Austin aren't here is because they were beat out in the competition by Dez and Aldrick Robinson. With Helu and Hightower hurting Royster was penciled in as the starter at running back, and then Alfred came on and they competed for that job.

And Fred didn't get his shot because Cooley played relatively well and well in the Shanny's first training camp. In 2011, Fred basically blew Cooley out of the water when he came back in much better shape and as a much better all around tight end.

The idea that people don't compete for jobs under Shanahan is bull.

Glad you're here to point things out. Notice your words though. According to you, Shanny had Hank and Robinson set up to compete for that spot. Why not an open competition? I'd also like to see the point where Royster and Morris were in competition. The way I remember it, and you can check the game logs, is that Royster and Helu were both hurt for the preseason and couldn't go so we had a 6th rounder starting. He played but he only wound up starting the regular season because the other guys were still injured. When they were healthy, it was going to be too hard to replace him. Lets not act like he came into camp with plans to get snaps with the starting unit cause it just didn't happen.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 04:45 PM ----------

Gibbs left the team with an aging team where the inmates ran the asylum, in a situation where the players would pretty much only play for him---guys like Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rodgers and LaRon Landry all more or less quit and wanted out of town once Gibbs left. Gibbs did not deliver unto Dan Snyder a playoff capable team; he handed him a team teetering on the ragged edge of irrelevancy that only needed the tiniest of shoves to fall off a ****ing cliff, and the age of the team and the injuries to key players destroyed the whole team over the course of two years. Pretending Gibbs left the Redskins with a team ready for a run is misguided, if not flat out wrong. Gibbs was a great man, but he was also a short-sighted man, a man who could motivate average players to do really good things, but who had lost the ability to develop really good talent to do great things. That we somehow made the playoffs is a testament to his ability to motivate, but the depths to which the team fell is also a testament to his lack of foresight and inability to build a team that could win now, and in the future.

Take off the burgundy colored glasses for a while and you're realize that while Gibbs was a great man, he left this organization just as it's foundation was cracking and about to come tumbling right the **** down.

Gibbs left it like that? You're kidding right. This team was disciplined under Gibbs. Thats the only reason that we started off 6-2 the next year, because of what Gibbs had installed. Once it broke down in that loss to Pitt, everything fell apart. And Rocky and Carlos never quit on this team. Carlos was still putting up good numbers his last year here, people just didn't like the drops. But I'm not sure what you call a playoff capable team but in my opinion its one that makes the playoffs. Gibbs retired from this team after taking them to the playoffs in 2007. Thats a playoff capable team. To act like it wasn't ready to run is to act like we didn't go 6-2, and finish 8-8 that next year. You're telling me that a team that starts 6-2 isn't a playoff capable team?

And please tell me you're not saying that this team right now is better than the team that we had in 2007. Cause I'd have to disagree. STRONGLY.

[NLC1054]

Glad you're here to point things out. Notice your words though. According to you, Shanny had Hank and Robinson set up to compete for that spot. Why not an open competition?

It is an open competition. It's the definition of an open competition. What more do you want? If Dezmon Briscoe practices hard and shows that he is capable of being a starter, than he too will get the opportunity. "Open competition" does not mean "throw everyone in and hope one of them sticks eventually". The definition of competition is lost if you're given an opportunity to start or receiver more playing time over someone else when you don't deserve it. Right now, Josh is in a position where he's going to start every game at the "Z" position, and Santana only plays the slot, and they have both earned those roles. The only spot left is the role of who's going to star opposite Josh, and every one left worth playing is competing for that spot.

I'd also like to see the point where Royster and Morris were in competition. The way I remember it, and you can check the game logs, is that Royster and Helu were both hurt for the preseason and couldn't go so we had a 6th rounder starting. He played but he only wound up starting the regular season because the other guys were still injured. When they were healthy, it was going to be too hard to replace him. Lets not act like he came into camp with plans to get snaps with the starting unit cause it just didn't happen.

If I recall correctly, Royster didn't injure his hamstring until after the Bears game in preseason. He started versus the Bills and fumbled the exchange, and was mostly ineffective. Alfred Morris went off in the second half versus the Bills. Maybe Royster did get nicked up, but Morris solid performance helped elevate him into the role of starter. And if Morris had just been okay, then when Royster came back, he likely would've been replaced.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

the quotes were around what was said...

Well I guess Shanny had no plans of packing it in after all, I wonder how the evaluation went?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well I guess Shanny had no plans of packing it in after all, I wonder how the evaluation went?

A 'told you so' HH? Off the back of the following game when it's indisputable what he said, and how he said it at the time? (Whatever the backtracking PR exercise the following day spun it into.).

Unlike you to stoop to that man.

Hail.

[Boss_Hogg]

Everybody be cool.

Mike's gotta a new hat.

[wantarace17]

Everybody be cool.

Mike's gotta a new hat.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...qlYr16w-9djX7A

He needs to never wear that again

[pjfootballer]

He looks like he belongs in A Clockwork Orange. In the Owned thread, someone photoshopped Colonel Sanders with the gang. We need a photoshop of Shanny in that photo.

[DogofWar1]

Shanahan looks so happy with that hat in the picture.

Shanahan never looks happy. Let him keep the hat so he stays happy.

[DC9]

Well I guess Shanny had no plans of packing it in after all, I wonder how the evaluation went?

I don't think anyone in here was rooting for the Redskins to do poorly. You should wait and see how we play vs a team that hasn't quit, though. Let's see how the stretch run goes...

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

I don't think anyone in here was rooting for the Redskins to do poorly. You should wait and see how we play vs a team that hasn't quit, though. Let's see how the stretch run goes...

Well the word was we had quit. Just because Shanny is not jumping up and down like a cheerleader doesn't mean he's quit, and even if your evaluating talent from a vantage point of a lost season does not mean your not going to give your best effort which I think many were trying to imply, coaching is about motivating and that comes in many different forms, I do agree that the Eagles have packed it in at this point, and we looked much better than we really are, but it was a nice way to come back after the break. Now lets dispatch the Cowgirls with extreme prejudice!