Is it time to start evaluating the Scouting Dept? (what should we do going forward?)

[Redskins4ever]

+1

While we all love Kerrigan, an NFL / ESPN analyst made a comment right when we drafted him, saying there is a little risk in taking a guy at 16 yet forcing a position change on him. And he is right. And I think its true of every OL we take as well.

Mike wanted to go 3-4 and it has not worked thus far. We can argue injuries, cap hits, bad fits, haslits, but in the end, it is probably more a combination of them all. But he wanted to change directions and go after guys he had to project.

We had speed pass rushers. But Rob Jackson seems a shell of his former self coming off the edge. He used to get a fair amount of reps and pressure in our 4-3. Chris Wilson too. I dunno, but they just don't seem as effective to me now. Zo used to do well in our 4-3, now I see him as a teamer only.

I just think finding talent and building depth is more difficult when projections are having to be made on the OL DL and LB every single draft. Our 4-3 while aging, was far from broken.

I'm really displeased with Shanahan and the decisions that he's made. If Bruce Allen was picking the players I wouldn't be so mad with Shanahan. But it almost never works when a head coach also is in charge of personnel. To make a long story short, the majority of our front seven is natural 4-3 DEs and DTs, and MLBs and the 4-3 is what we should be running. Shanahan wanted to switch to the 3-4 because that scheme supposedly causes more turnovers. Maybe so. But if you compare to causing turnovers in one scheme as opposed to smothering opposing offenses with another scheme(4-3) and getting the ball back to your offense, which scheme would you choose? If anything the Redskins should be running the 3-4 in some situations and the 4-3 in other situations.

[maskedsuperstar]

2006 Skins defense, under Gregg Williams 4-3

Total defense 31
Pass 23rd
Run 27th

2012 Skins defense, under Haslett 3-4

Total defense 27th
Pass 30th
Run 8th

[theTruthTeller]

Can't win a Super Bowl without a QB. This team has had a top 10 since 2000, how many times? During that same time, how points did the offense average? I don't disagree with you about the defense. But lets be real here. RG3 will be here for a long time. The issue around these parts has been on the offensive side of the ball. Yeah, lets see Rex under center again.

Possibly there will be a few quarterbacks that are much better than Rex, but not quite as good as RG3, available in the first round in 2013 or 2014. The best qb doesn't always win the SB. The best team generally does.

[Oldfan]

Joe Gibbs could've gave up 5 1st rounders for JC,??? It doesn't change anything...Show me when in this town we thought JC was the franchise Qb? JC did he even start with Gibbs? So are you telling me that Fans believe that the BACKUP QB was the FRANCHISE qb? LOL

Are you a Redskins fan? You don't remember that Campbell was once our QB hope and you don't remember him starting 52 games? Jason was never a backup QB. He went from third on the depth chart to number one in 2006 and never lost that job until he was traded. By your definition Jason was once our franchise QB.

[theTruthTeller]

Are you a Redskins fan? You don't remember that Campbell was once our QB hope and you don't remember him starting 52 games? Jason was never a backup QB. He went from third on the depth chart to number one in 2006 and never lost that job until he was traded. By your definition Jason was once our franchise QB.

Agreed. Jason was supposed to be the man, but JG wanted to ease him into the position. No one trades up in the first round to get their backup qb.

[maskedsuperstar]

Possibly there will be a few quarterbacks that are much better than Rex, but not quite as good as RG3, available in the first round in 2013 or 2014. The best qb doesn't always win the SB. The best team generally does.

The best team, with a good QB. You are not going to win in this league without one.

[authentic]

+1

While we all love Kerrigan, an NFL / ESPN analyst made a comment right when we drafted him, saying there is a little risk in taking a guy at 16 yet forcing a position change on him. And he is right. And I think its true of every OL we take as well, having to be "coached up" to dominate moving around.

Mike wanted to go 3-4 and it has not worked thus far. We can argue injuries, cap hits, bad fits, haslits, but in the end, it is probably more a combination of them all. But he wanted to change directions and go after guys he had to project.

We had speed pass rushers. But Rob Jackson seems a shell of his former self coming off the edge. He used to get a fair amount of reps and pressure in our 4-3. Chris Wilson too. I dunno, but they just don't seem as effective to me now. Zo used to do well in our 4-3, now I see him as a teamer only.

I just think finding talent and building depth is more difficult when projections are having to be made on the OL DL and LB every single draft. Our 4-3 while aging, was far from broken.

My only issue regarding the scheme is that Mike hired Haz, knowing FULL well that Haz was more confortable with the 4-3. Haz even prefered the 4-3. Why did Shanny bring in Spanos (who was probably the most well versed in the 3-4 on the staff) but not make him the DC from the jump. All the talk about Kerrigan and/or Orakpo being natural DE's in college is mute, because all 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I don't know of one college team who runs the 3-4.

[BobGriffin]

I question this scouting department's ability to close in on true 3-4 personnel. Everyone on the front seven has played in the 4-3 in the NFL or in college. You look at team's like NE, Pitt, and Balt. who run the 3-4 and they are drafting players who played in the 3-4 in college. The Redskins aren't doing that.

This is just incorrect you can most likely count on one hand how many teams play the 3-4 consistently in college and of those teams maybe 3 produce NFL talent.

Demarcus Ware DE in college
Ziggy Hood DT in college
Brooks Reed DE in college
Aldon Smith DE in college
Anthony Spencer DE in college
Terrell Suggs DE in college
Haloti Ngata DT in college
Richard Semour (DT in college DE when for Pats 3-4)
Glen Dorsey DT in college

I can go on and on but the overwhelming vast majority of the outside front 7 players played a different position in college. Most 3-4 defensive ends where taller defensive tackles. Most 3-4 OLBs where smaller defensive ends in college

[maskedsuperstar]

My only issue regarding the scheme is that Mike hired Haz, knowing FULL well that Haz was more confortable with the 4-3. Haz even prefered the 4-3. Why did Shanny bring in Spanos (who was probably the most well versed in the 3-4 on the staff) but not make him the DC from the jump. All the talk about Kerrigan and/or Orakpo being natural DE's in college is mute, because all 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I don't know of one college team who runs the 3-4.

Maryland
Notre Dame
TCU
Oregon
Nebraska

Haslett was the DC for the Steelers for 2 years. He has experience with running the defense. The front 7 is good. The secondary sucks!

[pjfootballer]

My only issue regarding the scheme is that Mike hired Haz, knowing FULL well that Haz was more confortable with the 4-3. Haz even prefered the 4-3. Why did Shanny bring in Spanos (who was probably the most well versed in the 3-4 on the staff) but not make him the DC from the jump. All the talk about Kerrigan and/or Orakpo being natural DE's in college is mute, because all 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I don't know of one college team who runs the 3-4.

Maryland. They've been running it for years. Alabama to name another. Georgia and LSU. Cal and Ga Tech. Almost forgot about Notre Dame.

* Masked and I are on the same page.

[BobGriffin]

Maryland. They've been running it for years. Alabama to name another. Georgia and LSU. Cal and Ga Tech. Almost forgot about Notre Dame.

* Masked and I are on the same page.

only time maryland produced a 3-4 OLB they ran a 3-3-5 and Shawne Merriman played DE and OLB.

He is 90% right tho.

Georgia ? they just started running this. Justin Houston was drafted in 2011 he plays OLB for the chiefs. Is playing well... he played DE in a 4-3 while at georgia.
LSU plays with 4 down linemen your just flat out wrong here.
Notre Dame has produced 0 nlf caliber 3-4 OLBs or 3-4 DEs .

[RandyHolt]

Maryland almost seems a shadow of the football program it was when I went there. Chuck Faucette and our 4-3 FTW.

Other teams may successfully convert 43DEs to OLBs but there have to be examples where players have struggled, failed, or simply don't dominate as they did hand in dirt a little bigger, playing their natural position, without having to even think about it. Why did they fail...was it always 4-3 coaches, or were some poor candidates to convert; just why dont they all get 10+ sacks?

Those teams that hit homers on stud OLB's Ware etc, did they have a working 34 in place for them to integrate into, mentors in place perhaps? Or were they all but expected to spearhead the transition as rookies, like Kerrigan or even Rak in his second season?

Coaching may have a lot to do with it, but some guys just want to get after the QB and do it much better than they do in space covering the flat. Some guys just dont have the hips. Rak looks stiff to me.

Any time I see Kerrigan in coverage, I know we are not going to sack the QB. Is Kerrigan in space, what is best for our team?

I for one think the answer is no. QB's must love it.

[Mad Mike]

Those factors are proof of superior brainpower.

So It's Shanahan's fault for not being here and not screwing up our cap space? He should have been smart enough to not waste money on garbage like Hannesworth right?

Smart handling of the cap is an economic problem. Belichik and Adams majored in Economics.

So they would be able to create cap space from thin air?

Here's a life lesson that cancels yours out:

It's smart to stick with sound plans and it's dumb to stick with unsound plans.

That's the theory that has fueled the coaching carousel that has destroyed this team over the past decade. By all means... lets do that again for another decade. That should work.

So, we are well within the bounds of common sense to question the soundness of Shanahan's plan since, in 13 years with full control of a football team, he has won only one playoff game and hasn't made much progress after 2.5 years on this gig.

The bottom line is that you have not intelligently addressed the Redskins real problems. Until you do that you don't have a CLUE as to how to fix the team no matter how many stupid threads you start.

[authentic]

Maryland. They've been running it for years. Alabama to name another. Georgia and LSU. Cal and Ga Tech. Almost forgot about Notre Dame.

* Masked and I are on the same page.

cool, but we all know that most NFL OLBs come from college programs where they were DEs. I don't want to appear dismissive, but i usually hear this argument as to why Rak and Ryan are out of position as 3-4 OLBs, but IMO, it doesn't hold much water.

[Oldfan]

...Any time I see Kerrigan in coverage, I know we are not going to sack the QB. Is Kerrigan in space, what is best for our team?

We're thinking alike. I don't like to second-guess coaches as a rule, but sometimes things just don't make sense. I think coaches outsmart themselves sometimes: "Ha, Ha! Fooled you! I have Orakpo and Kerrigan back in coverage this time, Dummy!"