POLL: Do men think women w/ curves or a little "junk in their trunk" are sexy?

[pointyfootball]

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong in a whole bunch of ways. Tell me you're naturally attracted to thin women. I'll find my many examples which historically contradict our current notions of beauty (I majored in history and have many extensively highlighted books to support my thoughts). Most recently I was skimming through my "peasant life in late tsarist russia" book and reading the section which discussed the brideshow prior to marriage, and how a thin bride would certainly affect the brideprice paid by her new family. After all, who wants some small skinny female? She isn't considered as attractive, won't be as good for childbearing, and won't be as useful for reaping the fields annually!

So what you are saying is our tastes haven't changed, rather our being able to admit it publicly has? Different cultures have different opinions (that change) on what is beautiful, and there is no denying that there are significant cultural differences within our own country. Whether or not those opinions are influenced by external factors (television, popular people, pornography, etc.) is debatable.

Your descriptions of your friends is interesting, and hence the reason we all shouldn't get married after one-night flings, because first impressions are not always indicative of true person.

[Boss_Hogg]

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

I married a beautiful voluptuous woman with DD's and a whooty.

[No_Pressure]

So what you are saying is our tastes haven't changed, rather our being able to admit it publicly has? Different cultures have different opinions (that change) on what is beautiful, and there is no denying that there are significant cultural differences within our own country. Whether or not those opinions are influenced by external factors (television, popular people, pornography, etc.) is debatable.

Your descriptions of your friends is interesting, and hence the reason we all shouldn't get married after one-night flings, because first impressions are not always indicative of true person.

Our genetically pre-disposed tastes as human beings are likely fairly general. Our preferences for beauty as adults are likely shaped from our early lives based off of our culture and accepted norms regarding beauty. With regards to body size/shape sure there is variation within our own culture, and I'm sure there are Mauritanians (sp) who don't feel attracted to fat women. The majorly accepted ideal in their culture for women is being fat however and they go to unhealthy lengths to achieve that ideal. The ideal in our culture is thin and a number of other things (large breasts, large butts, etc.) and we also go to what some consider unhealthy lengths to achieve an ideal (plastic surgery, bulemia/anorexia, etc.) As products of our time we're not necessarily attracted to XXX set of features in general because they are so obviously attractive and something else is unattractive. Even Kosher Ham perhaps, with his black and white well formed opinions of what is and isn't beautiful (trust me, I agree that you can't fix ugly and not everyone is beautiful) would, 700 years ago, be quite attracted to chubby women, since it was what was promoted to most people from a young age as the most desirable body type.

This wasn't for functionality either. The Russian peasants I mentioned wanted a sturdy woman for work, sure, but you see the plumper concepts of beauty from periods of history within aristocratic groups as well...in fact it's the only reason it is represented in art from periods such as the 1500s.

As for admitting it publicly, I would wager that many men in our culture have suppressed any thought that a chubbier woman is beautiful from a young enough age that they really don't have those secret thoughts to themselves and their concept of what is attractive is black and white to them, and there could be no other way. I'm also sure that this has happened in the reverse at other points in history. I would also wager that some men adhere to the cultural norm for much of their lives, and perhaps keep the dangerous thoughts that a chubby woman is attractive entirely to themselves out of fear. Others abandon that fear and become the often made fun of "chubby chasers". Personally, I would find it hard to explain which influences society had on shaping my preferences, since it obviously happens without our being aware. I will say that I was terrified while in high school to ask out a girl who had been labeled as somewhat chubby (looking back she was maybe 5'6-5'7, maybe 135-140 and barely had anything resembling a belly) but once I made it to college I didn't really fear what people would say to me as much. There are a lot of complexities to attraction however and while physical attraction is a must, there are plenty of physically attractive women who I found completely and totally unappealing for other reasons prior to meeting my wife.

[big#44]

I'd have to strongly disagree with men having as much pressure as women to "look good". Would also disagree that women dig muscle in men, in that most probably don't like the body-builder look, and in fact, make fun of that type of guy.

Who am I kidding...pretending to know what women want or like?!?

Muscle in men doesnt automatically equal the bodybuilding look.
Think Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth. Pretty sure I heard audible gasps from the female audience when Chris Evans came out of that thing shirtless. I really think girls dont truly understand how hard it is for Ectomorphs to put on muscle and how much dedication it takes.

Impossible to bet on, but I'd take it if I could! Only addresses weight, but shows significant gap:

"Women are up to 10 times more likely to have a poor body image than men, a study published today has found."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...odies-men.html

The flaw in your theory is that you expect men to admit it.

I think it's odd that people assume that what we find sexually attractive is 100% innate and not affected by the period of history in which we live. Many in this thread say they want a women who isn't rail thin but who is nonetheless thin, "feminine" in their mind, etc.

There is as much biological influence as there is environment (society). 200+ years ago plumper women were deemed more attractive because it was a sign of higher social class. (the richer you were the more you ate. Simple.) Thats it. Differences in social class aren't as pronounced however it could be argued that many people end with people of similar social standing today, but this could be purely environment though. So your right but your also wrong. Yes in history men have preferred plumper women. We are not however biologically hardwired to do so and I would say that most men would not prefer the women in those paintings.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 10:41 AM ----------

As for admitting it publicly, I would wager that many men in our culture have suppressed any thought that a chubbier woman is beautiful from a young enough age that they really don't have those secret thoughts to themselves and their concept of what is attractive is black and white to them, and there could be no other way. I'm also sure that this has happened in the reverse at other points in history. I would also wager that some men adhere to the cultural norm for much of their lives, and perhaps keep the dangerous thoughts that a chubby woman is attractive entirely to themselves out of fear. Others abandon that fear and become the often made fun of "chubby chasers". Personally, I would find it hard to explain which influences society had on shaping my preferences, since it obviously happens without our being aware. I will say that I was terrified while in high school to ask out a girl who had been labeled as somewhat chubby (looking back she was maybe 5'6-5'7, maybe 135-140 and barely had anything resembling a belly) but once I made it to college I didn't really fear what people would say to me as much. There are a lot of complexities to attraction however and while physical attraction is a must, there are plenty of physically attractive women who I found completely and totally unappealing for other reasons prior to meeting my wife.

I'm sorry, in my opinion the idea that we all prefer chubby girls but we pretend not to is ludicrous. Attraction isnt purely a learned behavior. Your coming from the view point that what shapes are formative years and what teaches us what we like and dislike is environment, environment, environment. And its simply not true. Genetics and biology plays as equal a role.

[pjfootballer]

KB, and K...You both need to cool your jets.

KB is being abrasive but I see his point also.
K, you are being overly sensitive to this topic IMO, which asks for the answers that we are providing.

KB owns who he is same as you do K. Let that part ride.

I don't mean to take sides so much, but if anything you are coming across as just as much of a bully K.

Again, both of you need to scale it back.

Glad you stepped in. One reason I bowed out of the thread was that the tone was getting too condescending and aggressive in here without sticking to the topic. Were the words I used to describe Serena Williams over the top? Yes. But it's how I felt. Is that how I feel about all women? Not in the least. I've been married for 8 years (I know, not alot of time, but I was a late bloomer) and never once have I (1) called my wife a name, not even something as harmless as dummy or (2) told her she needed to lose weight or anthing about her appearance. I thought I had a good post on one of the pages, but it was basically ignored. So, thank you KH for keeping things good in here. I really don't want to get into anything more than discussing the topic.

[No_Pressure]

There is as much biological influence as there is environment (society). 200+ years ago plumper women were deemed more attractive because it was a sign of higher social class. (the richer you were the more you ate. Simple.) Thats it. Differences in social class aren't as pronounced however it could be argued that many people end with people of similar social standing today, but this could be purely environment though. So your right but your also wrong. Yes in history men have preferred plumper women. We are not however biologically hardwired to do so and I would say that most men would not prefer the women in those paintings.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 10:41 AM ----------



I'm sorry, in my opinion the idea that we all prefer chubby girls but we pretend not to is ludicrous. Attraction isnt purely a learned behavior. Your coming from the view point that what shapes are formative years and what teaches us what we like and dislike is environment, environment, environment. And its simply not true. Genetics and biology plays as equal a role.

100+ years ago in various parts of the world, amongst the majority of people (peasants/working class) the ideal woman was not thin. It was not considered attractive for a number of reasons. The word we need to address here is "Functionalism". In perhaps 1800, 1700, 1600 the majority of people on the planet would have preferred and been more attracted to a chubbier and more built woman. The majority of people on the planet required a number of things- hard physical work from their women was one, and childbearing was another. The roles that women were needed for also influenced their attractiveness. There aren't any accounts of men from 17th century Europe talking about how they're in love with and marrying X woman because she is sturdy, but otherwise they would have preferred a thin woman with large breasts or whatever our ideal is today. They celebrated the appearance of their women, promoted the desirability of them, and talked of their attractiveness not merely as a result of their function in a marriage, but their appearance. The lines between function and physical appearance were blurred and merged. What was needed was seen as correct and beautiful, and this was NOT an upper class phenomenon, all evidence points to the contrary, especially in aristocratic circles of the 18th and 19th century where being large like the women of the masses began to be seen as a sign of poverty and thinness started to become a sign of status, which mutated into what we have today.

Your assumption that we are not biologically hardwired to be attracted to larger women is also quite false. For thousands if not millions of years larger women were symbols of fertility and femininity. Deep within human tendencies is the one to find a mate which will be the absolute most successful at reproduction, and those women are ones which were most successful at obtaining and storing extra fat which would be needed for safely bearing children in difficult times. As part of our being and for the purpose of surviving as a species we have naturally been drawn away from thinner and less suitable females towards the ones which gave us the best chance of perpetuating the species. We are social animals of course, and over time we can let social practices override our natural tendencies. It isn't natural for most people to want to puncture their skin. It causes pain and discomfort, and can lead to dangerous infections. That didn't stop our ancestors from deciding that it was a good idea to pierce their skin or tattoo themselves, and the fact that they did it and held their belief in the usefulness of such things doesn't mean that we are no longer genetically predisposed to feeling pain or fearing harming ourselves. We just decided to ignore it because social conventions told us we should.

When it comes to what is accepted as beautiful we do the same thing. Most of us likely are predisposed to finding chubbier women more desirable at a basic level. Our social conventions however tell us that this is no longer correct, and we adopt and live with our new reality. Think it's impossible for somebody to override their primal urges/attractions? I watched a TV show the other day where a guy was having a "relationship" with a sex doll. In other words he was content with ****ing a piece of plastic and talking to it like it was a person and had deluded himself into thinking it was a good and real substitute for the real thing. We're capable of deviating from our natural tendencies quite easily and without much effort. It isn't innate in humans to find pink hair sexy because it isn't something that exists naturally. I had a friend who was into some stupid "punk" bull**** and he thought his girlfriend's crazy bright pink hair was the sexiest thing in the world. It wasn't natural but his social conventions told him that it was sexy for entirely different reasons from his basic instincts.

Attraction isn't purely learned, and I never said that it was. Environment has a MASSIVE effect on who we are as people, and it has an effect on things which we think are natural about us. I'm not a racist and I feel that I'm naturally benevolent towards all types of people. Had I been raised in Georgia in 1878 I think all that naturally benevolent bull**** would fly right out the window and I'd probably be a raging racist, at least I would be if I had been raised to be and was part of a society which told me that it was a good thing to think that way. So society today tells us that it is a good thing to think XXX type of woman is hot. We're shown this from the time we're born through advertisements, television, news, etc. and by the time we're actually sexually aware we're already WELL aware of what is and isn't accepted as sexually attractive. Sure there are exceptions and deviations from this which are both natural and learned but in general I maintain that you are wrong in what you are thinking and once again ask you to consider why exactly it is that you feel the way you do about whatever your preferences are.

[Special K]

I happen to agree. And I think many posters on this site hold women up to some ridiculous standards. Just take a look at some of the comments in the babe draft threads throughout the years. People lambasting a woman because of a flawed belly button or ear lobes. I'm not saying I'm not critical of the physical aspects of women. I am. However, a lot of comments are/were over the top. But all the evidence suggests girls are more like to be mentally impacted by their flaws. Real or perceived. It's easy to say Girls shouldn't care what other people think of them. It's a lot harder to get that girl to believe it. If you really believe that, all of you should start posting pictures of your wife/girlfriend. Then let them read the comments that follow.

With regards to celebrity, there are far more men in hollywood who are famous and popular with a body style a woman couldn't get away with.
look at zach galifianakis. Short overweight man. Get's leading roles. Rosie O'Donnel/roseann gets made fun of relentlessly.

This is the point B-Mac and I are making that some people in here are having a difficult time understanding.

As a 31-y/o female, at this point in my life, I'm comfortable with who I am and I have no problem telling people to go pound salt if they say something stupid and immature about me or another individual. My mental state has matured past the "needing society's approval" attitude I held during my younger, more formative years.

The whole point about Hollywood's influence isn't about mature women blaming the media for everything (which we never were blaming them in the first place and I don't know how that continues to be brought up in subsequents posts )

The point is that studies have PROVEN celebrity infatuation & the chronic media bombardment of unrealistically thin supermodels with 6-pack abs has an impact on YOUNG girls in their formative years (e.g. elementary school, junior high, high school). Furthermore, overweightness and/or obesity is MUCH more widely accepted amongst the male gender in this society than the female gender (look at successful CEO's, the ratio of popular larger male actors to popular large female actresses).

So yeah, the media point wasn't brought up to enlighten people about it's affect on mature women, but it does impact young girls and is known to be a factor in unrealistic body image goals, low self-esteem, and a higher rate of eating and exercise disorders that can go on to impact a young female's mental development. I don't know how this is that difficult to understand as there is example after example of this manifesting in young girls, even young celebrity girls in our society today...

[Predicto]

I am certain that the "men have it just as bad" crowd is completely wrong, but I can't think of any way to explain it to them that would be successful. It's kind of frustrating.

How about this: Ever notice that men's magazines have a bunch of pictures of women in them, while women's magazines have a bunch of pictures of ... women in them? Ever wonder why that is?

It is to a man's advantage to be good looking in order to be popular and accepted. For a woman, it is almost a requirement.

[big#44]

What was this thread about again?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

This is why you can't discuss topics like this on message boards. I knew this thread would take this turn

[big#44]

This is why you can't discuss topics like this on message boards. I knew this thread would take this turn

I knew it was doomed from the start when I saw pictures given as examples for "curvy/average" and "thin". It just got more hectic from there. I'm surprised politics or Haslett hasnt entered the discussion yet.

[pointyfootball]

How about this: Ever notice that men's magazines have a bunch of pictures of women in them, while women's magazines have a bunch of pictures of ... women in them? Ever wonder why that is?

Even women prefer to look at women?

And...maybe because us men are afraid "it" might move with all pics of men.

[pointyfootball]

Pick your #...for me it's between 4 & 5. My wife is a tall #4 probably.



Not real fond of any of their faces tho.

[KDawg]

It's tough to tell... seeing how they're cartoons.

I'd say I generally sit between 3 and 5.

[Koolblue13]

I use to be a #2 guy, but I'm starting to slide towards 4 these days. Maybe even 5. I also preferred blonds when I was younger. Now I seem to like Brunettes a lot. Although the last two to get me were a redhead 6 and a blond 4.