Israel-Palestine kerfuffle

[jpyaks3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...election,_2013

And here is exactly why Netanyahu is escalating/starting this war.

[Larry]

Most of the "missiles" are something that you can make with scrap metal and a little fertilizer, its important to have perspective as to just what these "missiles" are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

They really don't do much more than scare the population and disrupt the day to day life of Israelis. They are not a terribly real threat to Israeli lives (only 20 or so Israelis have been killed by rocket fire in the last decade or so).

That is a possible answer to Larry's question of how they can supposedly fire thousands of the things, and not hit a bloomin thing.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 09:33 AM ----------

And here is exactly why Netanyahu is escalating/starting this war.

Now, now. Some folks have observed that the same thing happened during the lame-duck period following the previous US Presidential elections, too.

[Burgold]

And here is exactly why Netanyahu is escalating/starting this war.

Didn't read the wiki, but one interesting viewpoint is that the people of Hamas felt emboldened by the Arab Springs or at least the growth of fundamentalism in neighboring regions. That, and the much more open supply of munitions from Iran, Egypt, and elsewhere. Israel was feeling penned in and thus when those first couple of hundred rockets came raining in they decided to strike back hard trying to make a statement. It might be the reason why they went after the military leader which really put this from low boil to where we stand today.

I'm basing this on inteviews I had Thursday and Friday with people in Israel, Gaza, and abroad.

[jpyaks3]

Didn't read the wiki, but one interesting viewpoint is that the people of Hamas felt emboldened by the Arab Springs or at least the growth of fundamentalism in neighboring regions. That, and the much more open supply of munitions from Iran, Egypt, and elsewhere. Israel was feeling penned in and thus when those first couple of hundred rockets came raining in they decided to strike back hard trying to make a statement. It might be the reason why they went after the military leader which really put this from low boil to where we stand today.

I'm basing this on inteviews I had Thursday and Friday with people in Israel, Gaza, and abroad.

Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

[visionary]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...11-18-08-40-47

Israel, Egypt talk Gaza ceasefire as strikes widen

An Israeli envoy held talks with Egyptian officials Sunday on a ceasefire in his country's offensive on Gaza as Israel widened the range of its targets, striking more than a dozen homes of Hamas militants and two media officials. Seven civilians were killed, including five children, in the conflict's highest one-day civilian toll yet, according to security officials and witnesses.

Upon arrival at Cairo's international airport, the Israeli official was whisked away directly from the tarmac and taken to talks with Egyptian authorities, Egyptian security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press. They did not identify the Israeli official.

Egypt has been leading international efforts to broker a truce since Israel launched its offensive five days earlier aimed at stopping Gaza rocket attacks. But Israel and Gaza's militant Hamas rulers remain far apart on any terms.

https://twitter.com/JonDonnison

health min: now 63 killed since wednesday. In one incident 10 people all from one family (Dalou family) killed in one strike on house
9:28 AM

Jamal Dalou was Hamas man targeted. Now reports he may have been killed in strike. 9 of his family r dead say Hamas pic.twitter.com/TqXLifqq
9:34 AM

[Burgold]

Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

I'm never certain how to figure when these things started. How far back do we go?

But no, this latest didn't begin with the assassination as far as I can tell. Here's at least one attempt to give a timeline.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...nflict/265374/

[twa]

Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams
the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...te-jpnov11-295

[jpyaks3]

I'm never certain how to figure when these things started. How far back do we go?

But no, this latest didn't begin with the assassination as far as I can tell. Here's at least one attempt to give a timeline.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...nflict/265374/

Sorry I was talking about the escalation, naturally who started it is almost impossible to determine. But the major escalation seemed to occur with the assassination of the Hamas leader

Tuesday November 13

Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh praised Gaza's main militant groups in Gaza for agreeing to the truce: "They showed a high sense of responsibility by saying they would respect calm should the Israeli occupation also abide by it," he said." Reuters

A rocket exploded in an open area in Ashdod. MFA

Wednesday November 14

Reports emerged that Israel has targeted Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's military wing; Israel confirmed the assassination, citing his "decade-long terrorist activity," and said that killing was the part of an operation in which the military struck 20 different targets across Gaza. HaAretz [Note: Later reports indicate that Jabari was considering a permanent truce agreement at the time of his assassination]

Over the course of the day, Israeli strikes killed 8 Palestinians, leaving 90 injured. The dead include a 65 year old man, a pregnant 19 year old, a 7 year old girl, and an 11 month old boy. Ma'an News Agency

At 10:17 PM, HaAretz summarized the day's rocket attacks: 60 rockets fired, of which the Iron Dome defense system intercepted 17; later entries for that night show another 12 rockets, some of them intercepted. HaAretz

One rocket hit an Israeli shopping center, damaging stores and a vehicle. MFA

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 10:00 AM ----------

actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams
the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...te-jpnov11-295

From the Atlantic, prior to the volley of Qassams

Thursday, November 8

In an exchange of fire on the border of Gaza with militants from the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), Israeli forces killed a 12 year old (or 13 year old ) Palestinian boy. "The PRC said it had confronted an Israeli force of four tanks and a bulldozer involved in a short-range incursion beyond Israel's border fence with the Gaza Strip." Later, Palestinian fighters blew up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel border, injuring one Israeli soldier. Reuters

Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs reported the incident as follows: "An IDF [Israeli military] engineering force located a number of powerful explosive devices to the west of the fence. After the IDF disarmed charges found on the Gaza side of the border, and were repairing the border fence, explosives in an underground tunnel were detonated, causing a large explosion...damaging a jeep and lightly injuring a soldier."Israeli MFA



Saturday, November 10

An IDF force patrolling near the border, inside Israel, was hit by an anti-tank missile fired from inside the Gaza Strip. Two soldiers were seriously injured. MFA

In retaliation, Israeli tanks fired into Gaza, killing four Palestinians; Palestinian fighters retaliated in turn with rockets into Israel; an Israeli air strike targeted a rocket crew, & killed a militant. "Popular Resistance Committees, said it had fired rockets at communities close to the border and the towns of Sderot and Netivot in southern Israel, in what it called 'the revenge invoice' for the deaths in Gaza." The IDF reports that "over the past few hours, 25 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip hit southern Israel." Reuters

In addition to the four Palestinians killed immediately by Israeli fire, 38 were injured, one of them dying on November 13. As a result of additional Israeli artillery fire that day, 11 Palestinians, including a 10 year old child, were also injured. An Israeli drone fired a missile at members of the armed wing of Islamic Jihad in north Gaza, killing one militant. Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Then as they were working on a truce Israel escalated.

[jpyaks3]

actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams
the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...te-jpnov11-295

From the Atlantic, prior to the volley of Qassams

Thursday, November 8

In an exchange of fire on the border of Gaza with militants from the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), Israeli forces killed a 12 year old (or 13 year old ) Palestinian boy. "The PRC said it had confronted an Israeli force of four tanks and a bulldozer involved in a short-range incursion beyond Israel's border fence with the Gaza Strip." Later, Palestinian fighters blew up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel border, injuring one Israeli soldier. Reuters

Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs reported the incident as follows: "An IDF [Israeli military] engineering force located a number of powerful explosive devices to the west of the fence. After the IDF disarmed charges found on the Gaza side of the border, and were repairing the border fence, explosives in an underground tunnel were detonated, causing a large explosion...damaging a jeep and lightly injuring a soldier."Israeli MFA



Saturday, November 10

An IDF force patrolling near the border, inside Israel, was hit by an anti-tank missile fired from inside the Gaza Strip. Two soldiers were seriously injured. MFA

In retaliation, Israeli tanks fired into Gaza, killing four Palestinians; Palestinian fighters retaliated in turn with rockets into Israel; an Israeli air strike targeted a rocket crew, & killed a militant. "Popular Resistance Committees, said it had fired rockets at communities close to the border and the towns of Sderot and Netivot in southern Israel, in what it called 'the revenge invoice' for the deaths in Gaza." The IDF reports that "over the past few hours, 25 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip hit southern Israel." Reuters

In addition to the four Palestinians killed immediately by Israeli fire, 38 were injured, one of them dying on November 13. As a result of additional Israeli artillery fire that day, 11 Palestinians, including a 10 year old child, were also injured. An Israeli drone fired a missile at members of the armed wing of Islamic Jihad in north Gaza, killing one militant. Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Then as they were working on a truce Israel escalated with the assassination or is that not the correct timeline?

[Thiebear]

Yah, the Hamas leader that was upgrading the rockets to amazing levels, and attempting drones.
Killing him solves the problem for now, but its too late now, the technology is here to make everyone miserable.

[Burgold]

Sorry I was talking about the escalation, naturally who started it is almost impossible to determine. But the major escalation seemed to occur with the assassination of the Hamas leader

Yeah, I think it did escalate with the IDF strike into Gaza that killed that leader. Then, it got even hotter when Hamas showed they had weapons capable of reaching Tel Aviv and their willingness to target Jerusalem.

What started it though... or rather who started it though is a different matter although possibly less important than what happens now.

[visionary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/op...?smid=tw-share

Israel’s Shortsighted Assassination

the strongman of Hamas, the head of its military wing, the man responsible for the abduction of the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit — was assassinated on Wednesday by Israeli missiles.

Why? Israel’s government has declared that the aim of the current strikes against Gaza is to rebuild deterrence so that no rockets will be fired on Israel. Israel’s targeted killings of Hamas leaders in the past sent the Hamas leadership underground and prevented rocket attacks on Israel temporarily. According to Israeli leaders, deterrence will be achieved once again by targeting and killing military and political leaders in Gaza and hitting hard at Hamas’s military infrastructure. But this policy has never been effective in the long term, even when the founder and spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was killed by Israel. Hamas didn’t lay down its guns then, and it won’t stop firing rockets at Israel now without a cease-fire agreement.

When we were negotiating with Hamas to release Mr. Shalit, members of the Israeli team believed that Mr. Jabari wouldn’t make a deal because holding Mr. Shalit was a kind of “life insurance policy.” As long as Mr. Jabari held Mr. Shalit, Israelis believed, the Hamas leader knew he was safe. The Israeli government had a freer hand to kill Mr. Jabari after Mr. Shalit was released in October 2011. His insurance policy was linked to their assessment of the value of keeping him alive. This week, that policy expired.

https://twitter.com/Repent11

Arab League delegation headed by Dr. Nabil Al Araby will head to Gaza on Tuesday for a one day trip. Visit hospitals/bombed civilians homes
8:29 AM

Around 700 Egyptians have crossed into Gaza to from Rafah to support Palestinians, chanting "We are youth of Jan25, Palestine forever free"
10:06 AM

[Larry]

That might be a potential problem for Israel, too. The possibility that the victors of Arab Spring might have a problem with the occupation of Palestine.

[twa]

That might be a potential problem for Israel, too. The possibility that the victors of Arab Spring might have a problem with the occupation of Palestine.

the victors have quite a bit on their plate now....and have their hand out for money

but it could easily get uglier in the region

[visionary]

https://twitter.com/FromJoanne

Delegation of 5 Libya Congress members will go to Gaza and another delegation with take Humanitarian aid GNC
11:49 AM

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

Sky Sources: Two rockets were intercepted by Israel's 'Iron Dome' defence system in Tel Aviv
11:51 AM

https://twitter.com/AC360

This just in: @andersoncooper is in Gaza and will report live Monday at 8pET covering all sides of the conflict ac360 http://twitter.com/AC360/status/2702...r.com/80BAtIkL
12:09 PM

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaz...ms-agreed-upon

Hamas official: 90 per cent of ceasefire terms 'agreed' upon

Ghazi Hamad, Hamas spokesman, has told Al Jazeera that 90 per cent of the terms of a ceasefire currently being discussed in Cairo have been agreed upon.

Hamad's statement comes after 30 Palestinian deaths made Sunday the deadliest day of the current conflict in the Gaza strip. Among the dead was a family in the Jabalia refugee camp who lost 11 members when their residence was targeted in an Israeli airstrike.

Reportedly someone from Hamas had said earlier that talks were dead, so I'm not sure how accurate this is.



https://twitter.com/andersoncooper

Just got into Gaza http://instagr.am/p/SLqyfakkPP/
2:18 PM

In Gaza constant whine of drones overhead. Sounds like a distant lawnmower. Occasional blasts as well.
2:28 PM

A couple of explosions just now in Gaza. Incoming fire. Could feel the blast waves a few blocks away
3:14 PM

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 02:59 PM ----------





http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaz...l-71-wednesday

Airstrike in south Gaza brings total death toll to 71 since Wednesday

An airstrike in south Gaza has killed two Palestinians.

The late Sunday attack brings the total death toll to 71 since the conflict began on Wednesday:

Children: 20
Women: 8
Elderly: 9
Adults: 34

More than 660 people have been wounded, including: 224 children, 113 women and 50 elderly