Israel-Palestine kerfuffle

[ixcuincle]

Currently, Israeli missile and military attacks are focused on taking out Hamas leaders and munitions. (Which they have been so kind as to place in civilian centers). On the other hand, Hamas, a terrorist organization as declared by the United States and other Western powers, has indiscriminately fired missiles into Israel with the intent of killing innocent civilians, as well as employed suicide bombers to achieve their main goal of a violent removal of Israel.

There is a difference.

And before my edit, I said that you could, from the other perspective, try to make the claim that the United States and Israel were "terrorist organizations", like the US has done with Hamas. But the difference is clear as day, and listed above. Hamas is a violent organization. This has been proven time and time again.

And part of me is tired of seeing the bias on the news (the allegedly "Zionist" news, as some might have you think) of the Palestinians in Gaza mourning their dead. My main issue is that the news is primarily focused on the Gaza story, while not realizing that people are dying over in Israel too. That's my concern. The Palestinians are not victims. Both sides are at fault.

[GSF]

Isreal might be getting ready to put the hammer down on Hamas...Can't say I blame them.

[visionary]

Currently, Israeli missile and military attacks are focused on taking out Hamas leaders and munitions. (Which they have been so kind as to place in civilian centers). On the other hand, Hamas, a terrorist organization as declared by the United States and other Western powers, has indiscriminately fired missiles into Israel with the intent of killing innocent civilians, as well as employed suicide bombers to achieve their main goal of a violent removal of Israel.

There is a difference.

And before my edit, I said that you could, from the other perspective, try to make the claim that the United States and Israel were "terrorist organizations", like the US has done with Hamas. But the difference is clear as day, and listed above. Hamas is a violent organization. This has been proven time and time again.

And part of me is tired of seeing the bias on the news (the allegedly "Zionist" news, as some might have you think) of the Palestinians in Gaza mourning their dead. My main issue is that the news is primarily focused on the Gaza story, while not realizing that people are dying over in Israel too. That's my concern. The Palestinians are not victims. Both sides are at fault.

This misses out on a lot. For example the fact that Palestinians are victims on a daily basis just by the way they're treated like prisoners in their own areas by Israel, and the way Israel illegally allows settlers to steal their land and destroy their plants. Not to mention that the deaths are mostly on the Palestinian side.

There are good reasons that Israel is so unpopular around the world these days, and not just in pretty much every other country in the middle east or those mainly populated by arabs or muslims.

Interesting enough I've been watching for days now of tons of people on twitter complaining of the 'biased pro-Israel' news coverage focusing on rockets hitting Israel.

Of course none of this excuses the idiocy and vileness of firing off hundreds of rockets that have no chance of accomplishing anything other than killing some random civilians if some gaza militant gets lucky.

Anyway, enough arguing on my part, on to the latest news:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AF0C720121116

Egyptian prime minister arrives in Gaza - official

Egyptian Prime Minister Hisham Kandil arrived in the Gaza Strip on Friday to show solidarity with the Palestinian people following a two-day Israeli military offensive in the enclave, an Egyptian official said.

Israel has said it will suspend all military action during Kandil's three-hour visit so long as the Islamist group Hamas also halts fire.

http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetai...?newsId=298352

Turkey offers talks with Israel to end Gaza assault

Turkish deputy prime minister has made a surprise offer and suggested that Turkey and Israel should hold bilateral talks to end the escalating crisis in Gaza despite the rift between the two nations.

Bülent Arınç told reporters on Thursday that Turkey expects Israel to immediately halt the attacks on Gaza, which have left at least 20 Palestinians dead, including many civilians and infants. He added that these attacks have no moral and legal basis.

He described the death of Hamas' military mastermind, Ahmed Al-Jaabari, a “martyrdom” and pounding the city with bombs a “non-humanitarian” behavior and a “tragedy.”

The latest upsurge in the long-running conflict between Israel and Gaza came on Wednesday when Israel killed Al-Jaabari in a precision air strike on his car. Israel then began shelling the coastal enclave from land, air and sea.

Two days of Israeli air strikes have killed 19 Palestinians, including seven militants and 12 civilians, among them six children and a pregnant woman carrying twins. A Hamas rocket killed three Israelis in the town of Kiryat Malachi on Thursday morning.

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov

Israel conducted at least 200 air strikes on Gaza targets this morning.
12:45 AM

On the third day of the offensive.


https://twitter.com/pdanahar

I'm standing before a twisted, smoking pile of metal & concrete which last night was the interior ministry in Gaza
2:32 AM

Parts of the interior ministry building in Gaza are still on fire.
2:43 AM

Small bomb craters pot mark parts of the Gaza city. Hard to see what target was in many cases just a crater in the road.
2:45 AM

https://twitter.com/AJELive

Ismail Haniyeh and Egyptian PM Hesham Qandil have entered Shifaa Hospital in Gaza City to meet with injured Palestinians
2:52 AM

Reports of rockets fired from Gaza despite the ceasefire...damn it.


https://twitter.com/sheeraf

That was short-lived. IDF in Israel and officials in Gaza both confirm that ceasefire broken in exchange of airstrike/rockets.
3:11 AM

By the way, there is another interesting component to all this.
Hamas has done a fairly decent job of keeping militants from attacking Israel for a while now.
It's a bit odd that suddenly all these rockets started flying the past weekend.
Keep in mind that there are various groups involved here and not all are strictly under Hamas control, especially with the pivot Hamas has made away from Iran and towards Qatar and Egypt.
Hamas certainly seems to be involved now, but I wonder if this may have been started off by a third party with Iran's blessing.
For instance Islamic Jihad took credit for the rockets that reportedly landed in the water near Tel Aviv yesterday, possibly causing the Israelis to continue the airstrikes at least another day.

[visionary]

Oh fantastic....


https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

AFP: Hamas says two Gazans have been killed in an Israeli strike as Egyptian Prime Minister visits
3:27 AM

https://twitter.com/jamalAljazeera

Haniyan & Qandil show their blood stained cloths -after those injured in latest attack by israel r admitted to the hospital they're visiting
3:27 AM

Qandil: this is not just a palestinian cause, this is the cause of the entire muslim and arab nation
3:28 AM

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

Just met Bassim & his 3 young children who live opposite the interior ministry in Gaza. He said his kids were 'afraid & crying too much'
3:26 AM

The windows in his house were blown out 'stones & glass was flying everywhere' he told me standing on his balcony in Gaza
3:27 AM

BBC Arabic team was in hospital with Egyptian PM when two more bodies brought including 2 year old boy from air strike during his trip
3:36 AM

Egyptian PM said 'What I am witnessing in Gaza is a disaster and I can't keep quiet. The Israel aggression must stop'
3:37 AM

[Burgold]

20 dead in 200 airstrikes is a really impressive number to me. How they can keep the damage that minimized is astounding. That said, I do put some of the blame on Israel on this though I certainly can understand them trying to halt rocket attacks once again.

[ixcuincle]

This misses out on a lot. For example the fact that Palestinians are victims on a daily basis just by the way they're treated like prisoners in their own areas by Israel, and the way Israel illegally allows settlers to steal their land and destroy their plants. Not to mention that the deaths are mostly on the Palestinian side.

There are good reasons that Israel is so unpopular around the world these days, and not just in pretty much every other country in the middle east or those mainly populated by arabs or muslims.

Interesting enough I've been watching for days now of tons of people on twitter complaining of the 'biased pro-Israel' news coverage focusing on rockets hitting Israel.

Of course none of this excuses the idiocy and vileness of firing off hundreds of rockets that have no chance of accomplishing anything other than killing some random civilians if some gaza militant gets lucky.

Anyway, enough arguing on my part, on to the latest news:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AF0C720121116



http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetai...?newsId=298352




https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov

On the third day of the offensive.


https://twitter.com/pdanahar




https://twitter.com/AJELive


Reports of rockets fired from Gaza despite the ceasefire...damn it.


https://twitter.com/sheeraf



By the way, there is another interesting component to all this.
Hamas has done a fairly decent job of keeping militants from attacking Israel for a while now.
It's a bit odd that suddenly all these rockets started flying the past weekend.
Keep in mind that there are various groups involved here and not all are strictly under Hamas control, especially with the pivot Hamas has made away from Iran and towards Qatar and Egypt.
Hamas certainly seems to be involved now, but I wonder if this may have been started off by a third party with Iran's blessing.
For instance Islamic Jihad took credit for the rockets that reportedly landed in the water near Tel Aviv yesterday, possibly causing the Israelis to continue the airstrikes at least another day.

Both sides are at fault, period. The attempt to portray Palestine as a victim when they voted in a terrorist organization that employs suicide bombers and whose main objective (as defined in their charter) is the violent elimination of Israel is puzzling.

[KDawg]

Why doesn't the US come out and say something along the lines of, "While we support Israel in its endeavor to keep its people safe, and back the decisions they make, we feel that the situation is escalating to a point of severe ramifications and both sides. Gaza and Israel must stop the volleying of missiles."

I'll add a post script in saying: I know a little about this stuff, but not a ton. I'm not a political wizard, I pay attention to current events but have no idea if what I suggested is even remotely possible. But I would think that showing support of Israel is bad for our relations in the Middle East (which are already horrendous). *shrug*

[Popeman38]

I understand that Israel has done her share of damage in the "relationship" with Palestinians. But I have to be honest, if I were in charge there would be no Golan Heights or Gaza Strip. The first time a rocket was fired at me on my sovereign soil (an act of war as defined by the UN), that **** would be over. Pretty sure I would roll through those areas and end any ideas of independence. And I would tell the IC to mind their business.

[visionary]

Both sides are at fault, period. The attempt to portray Palestine as a victim when they voted in a terrorist organization that employs suicide bombers and whose main objective (as defined in their charter) is the violent elimination of Israel is puzzling.

While I don't have a lot of respect for Hamas, there are few in the Arab or muslim world who do not have some degree of hatred for Israel and again there are some good reasons for this mixed in with the propaganda and anti-semitism.
I am curious though why you keep bringing up suicide bombings. When was the last one in Israel? Because personally I don't recall hearing of one in a while.


Oh great...now the idiots have fired on Jerusalem.
Real helpful....


https://twitter.com/BreakingNews

Armed wing of Hamas says it has fired a Qassam rocket at Jerusalem; air raid sirens wailing in Jerusalem - @Reuters
9:55 AM

Still I have to ask for those who support this offensive...what do you think will be gained by it?
From what I see all it does is make international heroes out of some terrorists and greatly increase the danger to Israel...and kill a lot of Palestinians.
So far the number of rockets fired on Israel has greatly increased since the offensive started and the number of dead on both sides as well from 0 to 23+

[visionary]

2008 is the last officially documented suicide bombing. They learned that suicide bombings made them look barbaric through the lens of the media so they stopped them. And since 2008, the sypathetic stories on the plight of the Palestinians have increased ten-fold. But you don't get to carry out 171 documented suicide bombings over 20 years, totaling 804 fatalities, and claim after 3 years that they never happened. It was part of the SOP for Hamas for 2 decades. The specter of suicide bombers has been hung around their neck, by themselves, and will forever be associated with them.

Sure, but they have't done it in years. So it's somewhat misleading to talk about it as if they still are.

[KDawg]

Oh great...now the idiots have fired on Jerusalem.

REAL bad move on their part.

[Popeman38]

While I don't have a lot of respect for Hamas, there are few in the Arab or muslim world who do not have some degree of hatred for Israel and again there are some good reasons for this mixed in with the propaganda and anti-semitism.
I am curious though why you keep bringing up suicide bombings. When was the last one in Israel? Because personally I don't recall hearing of one in a while.

2008 is the last officially documented suicide bombing. They learned that suicide bombings made them look barbaric through the lens of the media so they stopped them. And since 2008, the sypathetic stories on the plight of the Palestinians have increased ten-fold. But you don't get to carry out 171 documented suicide bombings over 20 years, totaling 804 fatalities, and claim after 3 years that they never happened. It was part of the SOP for Hamas for 2 decades. The specter of suicide bombers has been hung around their neck, by themselves, and will forever be associated with them.

[pjfootballer]

Isreal might be getting ready to put the hammer down on Hamas...Can't say I blame them.

I'm kind of at the point where we should just let them take the leashes off, let them have a full scale war and winner takes all. Everyone stay out of it and let them have a knock down, dragged out fight. Get it over with already. It's been 100 years. Settle it already.

[ixcuincle]

Yeah, in theory that would be fine, but we have a pact to help out Bibi if he's attacked. Bibi is great

[Popeman38]

Sure, but they have't done it in years. So it's somewhat misleading to talk about it as if they still are.

Right. But if Germany started building a massive standing army, and started deploying them to the border of Poland and Austria, will the world react like they have never seen this behavior before?