RG3 posts the highest QBTG ever.

[No_Pressure]

Being able to make those subtle moves within the pocket is my minimal level.

Impossible to grade.

What you are calling reality isn't reality. It has has been shaped by performances which cannot be separated from team support. Talent has nothing to do with experience or growth in the scheme.

Sorry, but I don't believe that. Brady and Peyton's reputation is bolstered by their support systems.


Why not? He's using the same scheme he's played in for years. The scheme is a big support factor. He has a better defense than the Colts had to help him win games also.

Again, what is this being used for other than a circle jerk where we learn that RG3 is the greatest QB of all time? What does any of this matter? If the grades reflected the subsequent performance of the QB then it would be fine, and if your rating system could be A. Quantified in any way rather than giving subjective numbers to support a player's attributes, or B. Used to predict whether or not X player has what it takes, then it would be useful for anything at all. What is the function of this? What is the application? Michael Vick was maybe a 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5 in his prime. That gives him 25 points. That puts Michael Vick as a more talented player than Peyton Manning. Does anybody other than Michael Vick believe that Michael Vick is more talented than Peyton Manning?

Also, since you're making your observations of individual physical ability based off samples which come from observing these players playing football, and therefore playing as parts of an offensive system and depending on other players, your observations are inherently tainted by something as simple as an offensive coordinator's desire to showcase a player's ability in one area vs. another. We run RG3 all the time. Michael Vick, as many will remember from the Falcons was probably every bit as fast and elusive as RG3, only Andy Reid has decided not to allow Vick to get killed by doing designed runs (but rather having him sit stationary behind a terrible offensive line). Andy Reid has not been showcasing Michael Vick's running ability, and as a result, if your sample on Vick is from the past 2-3 years one might conclude that he is a 2-3 in running threat and extending a play, even though his actual physical ability is much higher. Maybe a player's sample comes from the west coast offense and even though they have a deep arm like Jeff George, they're not really showcasing that fact because they're good on short completions and YAC as part of their philosophy, therefore he gets a 4 in deep throws because you don't see it very often, therefore he must not do it all that well, right?

This is all so subjective and none of it has any application which is helpful in predicting or discussing anything of importance. It is merely a thread for us all to read and gawk at how good RG3 is in every number of areas. We don't need a chart to prove that.

[darrelgreenie]

There is a difference between talent and production.
This thread deals with talent or physical skillset.

[Oldfan]

... Brady just doesnt make mistakes. I would also argue that Brady has performed better with less talent at WR.

Tom Brady had the worst WRs in the NFL in one year. The following year, the Pats traded for Welker and Moss who were the best tandem in the NFL. Brady's quarterback rating improved 33% -- which is evidence that the quality of the support scheme makes a huge difference in a QB's performance and that the stats on performance are worthless for comparing QBs on different teams.

[wholee]

Good stuff, you may be onto something... HTTR! BEAT DALLAS!

[skinnyskins]

You haven't watched much Patriots football have you? They run a no huddle offense a lot and that requires the QB to call a lot of the plays, analyze the defense, adjust the play at the line (if needed), and execute. He uses his vision to locate open receivers (and he does not miss finding the open one often) and has the talent to make any throw. Im not making this up.

I believe RGIII is very talented and has the potential to be every bit as good as Brady, but the way you have these guys ranked is just wrong.

[Warpath11]

We will have to disagree on this point. Brady is far better at extending plays from the pocket and his passing accuracy is far superior to Cutlers. Cutler is talented but not in the same class as Brady. Cutler is prone to making the dumb mistake. His pocket awareness is poor as well. Brady just doesnt make mistakes. I would also argue that Brady has performed better with less talent at WR.

Bottom line, professional coaches, scouts and GMs viewed Tom Brady a 6th round pick coming out of college. That value is primarily based on his physical skill sets because while at Michigan Tom Brady was only a starter for his senior season (prior to that he split time with Drew Henson quite a bit). Tom, since being drafted, has developed very nicely in a perfect situation for a QB to be in, IMO. As it turns out Brady was more talented in the things scouts/GMs/coaches can not grade, however in the things they can grade, that Oldfan, point out in the OP he did not grade out well at all thus ended up being a 6th round pick stuck on the practice squad his first year.

[Oldfan]

Again, what is this being used for other than a circle jerk where we learn that RG3 is the greatest QB of all time? What does any of this matter? ...

It's a subjective, but intelligent way to grades QBs -- as opposed to a commonly used objective, but unintelligent, way.

[clskinsfan]

There is a difference between talent and production.
This thread deals with talent or physical skillset.

Great post. But I do believe you must have talent to be productive.

[skinnyskins]

It's a subjective, but intelligent way to grades QBs -- as opposed to a commonly used objective, but unintelligent, way.

Meh. I would say it's a way to judge a limited number of subjective criteria that doesn't paint the full picture of the criteria needed for a complete QB.

[Oldfan]

You haven't watched much Patriots football have you? They run a no huddle offense a lot and that requires the QB to call a lot of the plays, analyze the defense, adjust the play at the line (if needed), and execute. He uses his vision to locate open receivers (and he does not miss finding the open one often) and has the talent to make any throw. Im not making this up.

Brady isn't being asked to do anything that 30 QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The reason you think that he's something special is that his team gets better results doing it. And you're giving him the credit that rightfully belongs to the team with Brady included.

Steve Spurrier had rookie Patrick Ramsey reading defenses and calling plays at the LOS. Nobody thought Ramsey was wonderful because Spurrier's teams didn't win much.

[skinnyskins]

Brady isn't being asked to do anything that 30 QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The reason you think that he's something special is that his team gets better results doing it. And you're giving him the credit that rightfully belongs to the team with Brady included.

Steve Spurrier had rookie Patrick Ramsey reading defenses and calling plays at the LOS. Nobody thought Ramsey was wonderful because Spurrier's teams didn't win much.

[Oldfan]

Meh. I would say it's a way to judge a limited number of subjective criteria that doesn't paint the full picture of the criteria needed for a complete QB.

Work on it. Come up with something better.

[NLC1054]

You know, based on these metrics, Blaine Gabbert would be a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know about a "rating" that's been crafted around a long held belief even before the OP knew anything about Robert Griffin III.

[darrelgreenie]

Great post. But I do believe you must have talent to be productive.

Of course.
My post was a response to the confusion over the purpose or intent of the OP.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was surprised how good an athlete Luck is. It wasn't part of the pre-draft hype on him.

Actually it was part of Luck's hype. RG 3 drowned it out some especially on this board because he is an insanely good athlete but Luck's combine numbers -- speed, etc were similar to Cam Newton's and there was plenty of talk about that by the draft geeks/draft shows. Mel Kiper starting a year back before the draft loved to characterize Luck as Peyton Manning but with mobility.

Bill Polian who was on Sirius Radio a lot predraft talking about both Rg 3 and Luck from the vantage point of spending hours scouting both players while with the Colts -- actually emphasized 2 things in particular about Rg 3.

1. His release -- said he has the quickest release since Marino.

2. Arm strength -- said from day 1 he is in the top 5 in league in terms of arm strength.

Watching Rg 3 some in Baylor, the biggest thing that perhaps we started to see this week but have yet to see it in force is his accuracy with the deep ball -- he and K. Wright and T. Williams (who I'd love to see them draft next year if we are lucky) were electric in games