RG3 posts the highest QBTG ever.

[skinnyskins]

Brady isn't being asked to do anything that 30 QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The reason you think that he's something special is that his team gets better results doing it. And you're giving him the credit that rightfully belongs to the team with Brady included.

Steve Spurrier had rookie Patrick Ramsey reading defenses and calling plays at the LOS. Nobody thought Ramsey was wonderful because Spurrier's teams didn't win much.

Are you kidding me? Brady is running one of the most efficient offenses in the NFL and you think any other QB could do it. He is an rare QB that executes as well as any QB ever has. Bringing Ramsey into this only helps my argument because he was terrible at doing what Brady excels at. I agree that Ramsey had a worse situation in Washington than Brady has in NE but to discredit the talent that Brady has is ridiculous.

[Oldfan]

...Watching Rg 3 some in Baylor, the biggest thing that perhaps we started to see this week but have yet to see it in force is his accuracy with the deep ball -- he and K. Wright and T. Williams (who I'd love to see them draft next year if we are lucky) were electric in games

We were discussing this earlier. A knowledgeable poster thought my four was too low. I explained that I don't try to grade college play because the NFL is an entirely different game. Good college WRs get more separation and can then adjust to make the throw appear right on target. So, I'm working on a small NFL sample size.

[cphil006]

We were discussing this earlier. A knowledgeable poster thought my four was too low. I explained that I don't try to grade college play because the NFL is an entirely different game. Good college WRs get more separation and can then adjust to make the throw appear right on target. So, I'm working on a small NFL sample size.

Maybe the fact that NCAA uses a different ball might another reason why it's not always an easy translation. While decision making and intangibles can remain constant, some QBs struggle with throws they seemed to be normal with in college.

[Oldfan]

Are you kidding me? Brady is running one of the most efficient offenses in the NFL and you think any other QB could do it. He is an rare QB that executes as well as any QB ever has. Bringing Ramsey into this only helps my argument because he was terrible at doing what Brady excels at. I agree that Ramsey had a worse situation in Washington than Brady has in NE but to discredit the talent that Brady has is ridiculous.

Come on, Brother. You have no idea how well Ramsey called plays and you have insufficient knowledge or evidence to grade Brady. Your opinions are based on team performances that you are straining to apply to individual quarterback play.

[cphil006]

Brady isn't being asked to do anything that 30 QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The reason you think that he's something special is that his team gets better results doing it. And you're giving him the credit that rightfully belongs to the team with Brady included.

Steve Spurrier had rookie Patrick Ramsey reading defenses and calling plays at the LOS. Nobody thought Ramsey was wonderful because Spurrier's teams didn't win much.

Are you suggesting Tom Brady is a system QB and many others could do what he does in that offense? I disagree with that and I'm sure 99% of America does, too... I'd say Belicheck should count his lucky stars they found Tom Brady in the draft because he wouldn't have won any SBs without him.

---------- Post added November-19th-2012 at 12:28 PM ----------

Come on, Brother. You have no idea how well Ramsey called plays and you have insufficient knowledge or evidence to grade Brady. Your opinions are based on team performances that you are straining to apply to individual quarterback play.

As you do... and as your own assessment is... you're connecting dots that might be subjectively there... it's nice you've got a lot of time on your hands to create a perception of film study and a complex ratings systems, but you've made some laughable assumptions.. suggesting Tom Brady is in a Plug-and-Play offense? That's funny. Not sure this is worth commenting on anymore... good day!

[Oldfan]

Are you suggesting Tom Brady is a system QB and many others could do what he does in that offense?...

Since football relies heavily on strategy, all players, from the youth leagues to the NFL are system players. As the most important player on the field, all QBs are system players.

I didn't claim that many others could run the system as well as he does. I graded him highly. My claim was that 30 QBs in the NFL could run the no huddle and we have no intelligent way to grade them individually on that task.

[Mahons21]

I understand the logic behind removing performance statistics from the equation, but by doing so aren't we judging the potential of said player? Not necessarily their talent.

For example how does Sanchez grade out? or joe flaccos grade out in your equation?

[cphil006]

Since football relies heavily on strategy, all players, from the youth leagues to the NFL are system players. As the most important player on the field, all QBs are system players.

I didn't claim that many others could run the system as well as he does. I graded him highly. My claim was that 30 QBs in the NFL could run the no huddle and we have no intelligent way to grade them individually on that task.

30 QBs can run the no-huddle? Sure they can. Do you mean 30 QBs can run the no-huddle as well as Tom Brady? No they can't...

If we have no intelligent way to grade them individually on that task, why do you make the claim that all 30 can run it (I assume you mean run it well)?

[Oldfan]

I understand the logic behind removing performance statistics from the equation, but by doing so aren't we judging the potential of said player? Not necessarily their talent.

I think their potential arises from their talent.

I'll add to my hypothetical to clarify: Tom and Dave have identical talent, thus identical potential. But Tom's outstanding support allowed him to play at 90% of his potential in his career while Dave's poor support restricted him to playing at 70%.

For example how does Sanchez grade out? or joe flaccos grade out in your equation?

I just created the QBTG in order to explain my grading approach. So, I don't have numbers on them, but I think both Sanchez and Flacco have been underrated because of their support systems. Flacco has been very underrated, IMO. I grade him highly as a passer and he has average mobility.

[darrelgreenie]

I understand the logic behind removing performance statistics from the equation, but by doing so aren't we judging the potential of said player? Not necessarily their talent.

For example how does Sanchez grade out? or joe flaccos grade out in your equation?

I think, correct me if I'm wrong OF, but his method is fairly similar to the one we used 2 years ago that evaluated the college QBs. Except he does the evaluation in the NFL.

[Oldfan]

30 QBs can run the no-huddle? Sure they can. Do you mean 30 QBs can run the no-huddle as well as Tom Brady? No they can't...

If we have no intelligent way to grade them individually on that task, why do you make the claim that all 30 can run it (I assume you mean run it well)?

I mean 30 can run it at least at a minimum level of NFL competence and we have no way of intelligently comparing and ranking any of them to Brady.

In my hypothetical, Tom and Dave would run the no huddle equally well, but the bandwagon opinion would be that Tom runs it better because Tom has outstanding support and Dave doesn't.

---------- Post added November-19th-2012 at 01:24 PM ----------

I think, correct me if I'm wrong OF, but his method is fairly similar to the one we used 2 years ago that evaluated the college QBs. Except he does the evaluation in the NFL.

If you are referring to the method you linked us to. Yes.

I didn't plagiarize your method. I'd never seen it before today. I use the scale of five often.

[No_Pressure]

It's a subjective, but intelligent way to grades QBs -- as opposed to a commonly used objective, but unintelligent, way.

Okay, so you want a different way to judge a quarterback. If your system is dependent upon your own opinions based off what you see that makes it nothing more than conjecture. Again, what is the purpose- or should I say, the application of this? How are we going to take your system and use it to better understand the world of football? Or are we just going to use it to point out that RG3 is as awesome as we already know he is? We already know this number is not an indicator for how well a QB will do, it isn't even a good measure of potential since JaMarcus Russel would probably rate higher than a lot of quarterbacks (and we know now that the fact that he was a lazy idiot doomed him before he even got started). This isn't an indicator of anything. It doesn't show anything or explain anything. If your point was that great quarterbacks are the product of great teams then sure, I agree to a certain extent without even getting into the whole chicken and the egg argument. It's just that we don't need some rating system to highlight that fact.

[Oldfan]

Okay, so you want a different way to judge a quarterback. If your system is dependent upon your own opinions based off what you see that makes it nothing more than conjecture. Again, what is the purpose- or should I say, the application of this? How are we going to take your system and use it to better understand the world of football? Or are we just going to use it to point out that RG3 is as awesome as we already know he is? We already know this number is not an indicator for how well a QB will do, it isn't even a good measure of potential since JaMarcus Russel would probably rate higher than a lot of quarterbacks (and we know now that the fact that he was a lazy idiot doomed him before he even got started). This isn't an indicator of anything. It doesn't show anything or explain anything. If your point was that great quarterbacks are the product of great teams then sure, I agree to a certain extent without even getting into the whole chicken and the egg argument. It's just that we don't need some rating system to highlight that fact.

Most of the football world is using performance stats to compare quarterbacks. I made a concise argument here that most of the football world is silly for doing so. I thought that was worthy of a post on its own.

My approach is subjective, but I'm grading things we can all see and debate. I had three posters tell me that my four should be made a five on the deep passing grade. So, while subjective, my grades can't be unrealistic without producing protest from the posters who accept the method. If the posters don't accept the method, who cares how their grades would differ?

[darrelgreenie]

If you are referring to the method you linked us to. Yes.

I didn't plagiarize your method. I'd never seen it before today. I use the scale of five often.

Not even suggesting that at all.
I was giving Mahon's an example that might convey your intent from the OP that directly related to him.

[Oldfan]

Not even suggesting that at all.
I was giving Mahon's an example that might convey your intent from the OP that directly related to him.

I didn't mean to imply that you were thinking I plagiarized the idea. I was just clarifying.