RGIII is the 2012 Rookie of The Year! The Official RGIII Rookie of The Year Watch Thread

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

It's not racial at all. It comes down to W/L records and stats. Right now RGIII is, for the most part, putting up better stats, but Luck has more wins.

It's understandable (however misguided it is) that the QB who wins more is "better" and thus more deserving of ROY.

The problem is the BS that people use to knock DOWN RGIII. People who think our offense is simplistic because we toss in a few Pistol formations every game. People who think that RGIII just scrambles around like Vick. You see it on the radio and other forums, they assume Robert is just throwing to his first read (and of course, Andrew Luck is reading defenses like Brees or Manning as a rookie, how do we know this, we just know!) each and every play.

Remember how much people were crowing after the 2 games before the bye that our offense has been "exposed"? Completely ignoring of course, the gorillion drops the WRs had in those games?

And just compare to guys like Sam Bradford - Sam Bradford was celebrated for throwing almost 600 passes yet barely breaking 3500 yards with 18 TDs, and was going to be the next big thing at QB. Why? Because he won 6 more games against a last place schedule than the team did before.

[KDawg]

It's understandable (however misguided it is) that the QB who wins more is "better" and thus more deserving of ROY.

Agreed, team numbers and statistics in general are a poor measure of actual play. But without any other system in place, and a lack of qualified people to put the system in place (as most qualified people are working in football) it's the practice that is used. It's flawed and ridiculous, though.

The problem is the BS that people use to knock DOWN RGIII. People who think our offense is simplistic because we toss in a few Pistol formations every game. People who think that RGIII just scrambles around like Vick. You see it on the radio and other forums, they assume Robert is just throwing to his first read (and of course, Andrew Luck is reading defenses like Brees or Manning as a rookie, how do we know this, we just know!) each and every play.

What's ironic here to me, and I would bet you every dollar in my wallet (if I lose, you're getting $2 and a piece of lint) that you didn't even realize you did it. You compared the black quarterback to the black quarterback and the white quarterback to the white quarterbacks. I'll assume the black to black comparison was in context to your earlier racial comment. But I doubt the second part was. I may be wrong. But the bet I am willing to make is that you didn't even know you did that...

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Remember, I'm paraphrasing other people, the proverbial "them". When people see RGIII, they think Vick (without any evidence, RGIII and Vick are fast black QBs so they're obviously the same, RGIII is more like a faster, possibly more accurate Steve Young than anything) and when people see Luck, they see Peyton or Aaron Rodgers (though I'm not going to force a comparison to a black QB to even it out, though MAYBE Josh Freeman is a good comp)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It's understandable (however misguided it is) that the QB who wins more is "better" and thus more deserving of ROY.

We have to be careful though, don't we? I have no idea where you personally stand in the Oldfan Debates about how rate a QB, but you can't very well throw winning out the window for ROY voting and also believe Brady and Manning are the best out there because they know how to win.

It's funny that the general theme in the ROY thread is that RG3 is the best because he's incredible (which I tend to agree with) but then the same general theme in the other threads is that Brady just wins so that makes him the best. If people used consistent logic, they would probably break down like this:

Just Win/Intangibles Camp
Best QB - Brady/Manning
RotY - Luck

Measureables Camp
Best QB - Cutler/Newton
RotY - Griffin

[KDawg]

We have to be careful though, don't we? I have no idea where you personally stand in the Oldfan Debates about how rate a QB, but you can't very well throw winning out the window for ROY voting and also believe Brady and Manning are the best out there because they know how to win.

It's funny that the general theme in the ROY thread is that RG3 is the best because he's incredible (which I tend to agree with) but then the same general theme in the other threads is that Brady just wins so that makes him the best. If people used consistent logic, they would probably break down like this:

Just Win/Intangibles Camp
Best QB - Brady/Manning
RotY - Luck

Measureables Camp
Best QB - Cutler/Newton
RotY - Griffin

I still think that from an overall perspective, QB measureables are important. But from a scheme and use perspective, measureables such as running ability can become non factors. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are "winners" and have intangibles, but they also are a scheme fit and their measureables are through the roof for use with their scheme. I think scheme fit has to sit somewhere in the conversation. QBs should be graded on the system they're asked to run/being asked to run/running. The universal ranking system does wonders for a team looking for a QB, but it doesn't work as well otherwise.

The reason why Griffin is so highly regarded in both camps is because both his "winner/intangibles" and his "measureables" are through the freakin' roof on any scale.

[KingGibbs]

This thread has become hilarious and pathetic at the same time. A lot of you have lost credibility when dismissing what Luck has done this year. If he were a 'skin you would be loving him as much as we love RGIII. He is only behind Matt Ryan in come behind wins and is on the cusp of leading his completely revamped team to the playoffs. There is so much that he is doing right, but I just don't feel like listing them quite frankly.

When you soley rely on stats to judge a QB your ignorance gets magnified.

[Sticksboi05]

This thread has become hilarious and pathetic at the same time. A lot of you have lost credibility when dismissing what Luck has done this year. If he were a 'skin you would be loving him as much as we love RGIII. He is only behind Matt Ryan in come behind wins and is on the cusp of leading his completely revamped team to the playoffs. There is so much that he is doing right, but I just don't feel like listing them quite frankly.

When you soley rely on stats to judge a QB your ignorance gets magnified.

8-4 vs. the easiest schedule in the NFL is what it is.

[mistertim]

The reason why Griffin is so highly regarded in both camps is because both his "winner/intangibles" and his "measureables" are through the freakin' roof on any scale.

This is a good point and I'd also say that you could put in "statistics/numbers" as a third category that is important. I know stats can be misleading at times but they can be useful when understood in the proper context. It is definitely possible for a QB to put up average statistics but still have a winning record, just like it is possible for a QB to put up gaudy stats and have a losing record. The rest of the team really matters when you're talking about wins and losses. That isn't taking anything away from Luck; I think he has had a very good rookie season so far and has looked elite at times.

Its an interesting debate...the "wins vs numbers" thing. At the end of the day the only thing that matters for a team is wins. However, if you're talking about an award for individual performance I think you factor in both, but stats and production has to be weighted more, IMO. Luck has had some really great drives and has helped bring his team back in games, but at the same time he is sometimes putting them in that position himself by making poor decisions/throws which lead to turnovers and usually points for the other team. Griffin's stats are up there with the best QBs in the NFL, not just rookies. He isn't doing anything to harm his team's chances during games (or at least very very rarely does); whenever he is out there all he does is give them a better chance to win.

Both Griffin and Luck are clutch. Luck has shown this by leading his team down the field multiple times in the 4th quarter when they need it most. Griffin has done that as well but unfortunately it hasn't translated into as many wins for various reasons that are mostly out of his control. Griffin has also been clutch by performing better and better the bigger the stage is. His best games have been vs the division, in an extremely loud and hostile environment (NO), and on Thanksgiving evening in probably the most watched game of the regular season against a Cowboys team that we had never beaten in that venue on that day.

For Griffin I would also add in his amazing playmaking ability; I've never seen a QB who could make something out of nothing so often and in such dazzling fashion. Obviously that goes into the "intangibles" category because you really just can't quantify something like that, though it is different than some other "intangibles" (ability to read a defense, football IQ, etc) because you can SEE it. You can watch as he does it and then say "wait, did that just happen?". That might make a difference in the weight an "intangible" would bring to a OROY decision and analysis.

Either way, I'm not going to knock Luck because I thought he was an amazing prospect and I think he has done some great things this year given his situation and how they are utilizing him. Watching him play is really fun (not as fun as RG3, but impressive ) and I think both of them will have long careers as two of the best QBs we've ever laid eyes on. OROY...we'll just have to see. I would give the edge to RG3 for now, not just as a homer, but a case could certainly be made for Luck as well, especially if they go on to the playoffs or win in the playoffs.

[youngchew]

8-4 vs. the easiest schedule in the NFL is what it is.

This is how I feel as well...

I mean good lord, look @ that schedule. What if RG3 and the Redskins played the Colts schedule this year. Jaguars, and Titans twice...and then play Buffalo, Miami, NYJ, Browns, Cheifs. easiest schedule in the league. I'd say there's a good chance the Skins are at least 8-4 with that schedule....

on the flip side, what if Luck and the Colts had to play the Redskins schedule? Cowboys and Giants twice, Saints, Rams, Bengals, Bucs, Falcons, Vikings, Steelers, Ravens. BRUTAL.


In Summary:

The # of teams the Colts have played who are .500 or better: 4
The # of teams the Redskins have played who are .500 or better: 9 (10 if you count the Rams 5-6-1)

[justice98]

Greenberg said earlier that the skins have an "excellent defense".

I've heard a few people on ESPN give us credit for having a good defense. Just goes to show that these national types don't actually watch the games.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------

Luck - Comp% - 55.5 Yds - 3,596 TD - 17 Int - 16 Rate - 76.1
Weeden - Comp% - 57.0 Yds - 2,820 TD - 13 Int - 15 Rate - 72.3
Sanchez - Comp% - 55.0 Yds -- 2,436 TD - 12 Int - 13 Rate - 71.4

They are fairly comparable although Luck's yardage certainly sets him apart. He does average 6 more attempts per game than Weeden and 11 more than Sanchez.

For what it's worth, Luck is 6th in Total QBR (ahead of Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Stafford, among others), while Sanchez and Weeden are 32nd and 33rd respectively. RG3's 4th, pending tonight's game.

You've really gotta compare apples to apples when going over the passing stats, cuz Luck airs it out every week as you alluded to. I'd like to see what his numbers would be if he only threw it 25 times like RG3, vs the 45-50 that he does every week. And vice versa if RG3 threw it that many times. RG3's high for attempts was only 39 and Luck's beat that 7 times already.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The reason why Griffin is so highly regarded in both camps is because both his "winner/intangibles" and his "measureables" are through the freakin' roof on any scale.

I agree. I just think he'll have to overcome the perception of the former until we actually begin winning as a team. I know he's won in college (and assume in high school), but so far he's 5-6 in the NFL.

[justice98]

This is how I feel as well...

I mean good lord, look @ that schedule. What if RG3 and the Redskins played the Colts schedule this year. Jaguars, and Titans twice...and then play Buffalo, Miami, NYJ, Browns, Cheifs. easiest schedule in the league. I'd say there's a good chance the Skins are at least 8-4 with that schedule....

on the flip side, what if Luck and the Colts had to play the Redskins schedule? Cowboys and Giants twice, Saints, Rams, Bengals, Bucs, Falcons, Vikings, Steelers, Ravens. BRUTAL.


In Summary:

The # of teams the Colts have played who are .500 or better: 4
The # of teams the Redskins have played who are .500 or better: 9 (10 if you count the Rams 5-6-1)

We can play the schedule game, but which team was 2-14 last year, implying that one guy's got handed less to work with on their roster.

[martytheman]

I've heard a few people on ESPN give us credit for having a good defense. Just goes to show that these national types don't actually watch the games.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------



For what it's worth, Luck is 6th in Total QBR (ahead of Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Stafford, among others), while Sanchez and Weeden are 32nd and 33rd respectively. RG3's 4th, pending tonight's game.

You've really gotta compare apples to apples when going over the passing stats, cuz Luck airs it out every week as you alluded to. I'd like to see what his numbers would be if he only threw it 25 times like RG3, vs the 45-50 that he does every week. And vice versa if RG3 threw it that many times. RG3's high for attempts was only 39 and Luck's beat that 7 times already.

so if the excuse for Luck's completion percentage, int's and overall 70ish rating is he's thrown soo many more pass attempts, then why does he have a 1:1 td/int ratio?
the guy has thrown 100+ more pass attempts and has ONE more td to show for it?? and 3x as many int's?

That line of thinking seems faulty to me. If hes "airing it out" then he should have alot more td passes than RG3, and he doesn't. The only thing he's got more of is yards and interceptions.

[Boss_Hogg]

Through Week 12:

RG3 opponents' win/loss: 68-63-1.
Luck opponents' win/loss: 56-77.

No contest

[Idaho fan]

If he were a 'skin you would be loving him as much as we love RGIII. He is only behind Matt Ryan in come behind wins and is on the cusp of leading his completely revamped team to the playoffs. .

This is a good point and one I mostly agree with BUT one reason he has so many come from behind wins is in part because of the poor decisions Luck makes during the game. I watched every snap Luck took yesterday and for every good throw there were two bad. I don't see that same thing occur with Wilson or RG.

I hear Colin Cowherd (yes Im ashamed to admit I listen to him) go on and on about how Luck is asked to do more.. throw way more than RG does which can explain away the considerably more INTs that Luck has. But then shouldn't Luck have the same percentage more TDs and Yards than RG?

I was surprised by Luck's play yesterday. He looked very average to me. Several throws off target. He had 3 picks and should have had 2 more that hit Lion defenders in the hands. Im not trying to bash Luck to build up RG - Luck did get the win yesterday which is all that matters for his team but to claim he was "brilliant again" yesterday as Ive heard/read is just silly.


Just read this post:

so if the excuse for Luck's completion percentage, int's and overall 70ish rating is he's thrown soo many more pass attempts, then why does he have a 1:1 td/int ratio?
the guy has thrown 100+ more pass attempts and has ONE more td to show for it?? and 3x as many int's?

That line of thinking seems faulty to me. If hes "airing it out" then he should have alot more td passes than RG3, and he doesn't. The only thing he's got more of is yards and interceptions.

YES! EXACTLY my point! Thank you!