The Jay Cutler argument for sticking with Mike Shanahan

[Painkiller]

I think the thread was going well but then abruptly ended in a negative doomsday comment that frankly doesn't make sense to me and seems born out of dislike instead of rationality.

This sentence really speaks volumes about the tone of many discussions here. I think many would rather be right in their opinions, than give credit where it is due. When I criticize, NOTHING MAKES ME HAPPIER than to be proven wrong about some negative view or attitude I might have about the team or an individual.

[Oldfan]

How many coaches ARE capable of building and maintaining the #1 team in the NFL? Belicik is about the only one, and when's the last time he won a Superbowl?

I mean...what do yall want?...

As I said, I'd like the be the #1 team in the NFL, but I'm willing to settle for not screwing up Robert's career. Isn't that reasonable enough for you?

---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 05:56 PM ----------

This sentence really speaks volumes about the tone of many discussions here. I think many would rather be right in their opinions, than give credit where it is due. When I criticize, NOTHING MAKES ME HAPPIER than to be proven wrong about some negative view or attitude I might have about the team or an individual.

I make it a point to stay out of threads where some of you homers want to get together and agree that you are superior Redskins fans. Please return the favor and stay out of mine. Either that or try harder to keep your ego in check.

[Hitman21ST]

Oldfan, I completely agree with your post, just have one question.

Why do you not think we'll become the number one team with Snyder as the owner? Had he still been tromping around and leading a circus like he was with Vinny, it would be an obvious answer. However, he has taken a hands-off approach and let Shanahan and Allen do their thing, which (now that we have RG3) seems to be working. If he continues on this path and allows the personnel guys to do their job and give Robert the talent he deserves to have around him, I have no doubt we will become a dominant team. I'm assuming by "number one team" you mean a run of Patriot-like dominance (10-15 years of winning the division, adding to our Lombardi total two or three times at least)

[Painkiller]

I make it a point to stay out of threads where some of you homers want to get together and agree that you are superior Redskins fans. Please return the favor and stay out of mine.

I guess I struck a chord with that one. Check my posting history. I am no blind homer, it's just for me the team wining is more important than being correct. If that makes me a homer and a "superior Redskins fan" So be it.

As for me, I'll post where I damn well please thank you.

[Oldfan]

...But to your point, i do think specifically for RG III, its better to keep Shanny for both his offensive mind and for continuity sake. But for me personally, I want at least an average defense next year, if the defense stinks again then there is so much slack am going to give him.

I don't know much about Rick Dennison. Kyle would maintain continuity with the scheme. But as Stevie wrote, it's hard to see him as ready for more responsibility. So, the options are limited.

[elkabong82]

Didn't my first paragraph answer your question?


In Dan Snyder's shoes, I would not have hired Mike Shanahan. My goal would be to build the number one team in the NFL and to hold that position indefinitely. I didn't think it likely that Mike was either willing or able to achieve that goal. I still feel that way.

If you're confident that Shanny can make the offense great then we have a shot at being #1. The Saints and Colts won with great offenses and below average defenses that did just enough in the turnover department, which describes our D well. I think the opinion that you trust Shanny with RG3 and the opinion the team will never be #1 under Snyder (because Shanahan is HC) don't work together. It comes off like you can no longer deny Shanny was a bad choice because of how great RG3 has come along, but because you've been so against him you refuse to entertain the possibility of the team being great, despite that possibility existing if you're willing to concede RG3 is coming along great. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what it comes off as, to me, and those 2 opinions don't make sense together.

[Oldfan]

...Why do you not think we'll become the number one team with Snyder as the owner? Had he still been tromping around and leading a circus like he was with Vinny, it would be an obvious answer...

I don't want a hands off owner. I want an owner committed to being #1 and hiring the people with the brainpower to beat Bill Belichik and Ernie Adams at the game of NFL football.

[Hitman21ST]

I don't want a hands off owner. I want an owner committed to being #1 and hiring the people with the brainpower to beat Bill Belichik and Ernie Adams at the game of NFL football.

Gotcha.

That's the tricky part though: finding that happy medium between hands off and the debacle that he was with Vinny. Should we complete the comeback this season (win the division) and roll through next season, would you say Shanny has turned the corner?

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't know much about Rick Dennison. Kyle would maintain continuity with the scheme. But as Stevie wrote, it's hard to see him as ready for more responsibility. So, the options are limited.

I can't put my finger on why but Kyle doesn't strike me as head coaching material -- his Dad for better or worse has IMO gravitas and looks and sounds the part as HC, Kyle to me simply doesn't.

[Oldfan]

If you're confident that Shanny can make the offense great then we have a shot at being #1. The Saints and Colts won with great offenses and below average defenses...

From my OP -- My goal would be to build the number one team in the NFL and to hold that position indefinitely. Does that sound like I'd settle for the achievement of the Saints or the Colts? Beating Belichik and the kind of success he had with the Patriots would be my goal.

[Skinsinparadise]

From my OP -- My goal would be to build the number one team in the NFL and to hold that position indefinitely. Does that sound like I'd settle for the achievement of the Saints or the Colts? Beating Belichik and the kind of success he had with the Patriots would be my goal.

Have the Giants -- Coughlin/Reese surpassed Belichick? Been awhile since Belichick has won a superbowl and while the Giants haven't matched the Patriots W-L record, they have beaten them in the Superbowl twice and Reese has built a more balanced team, Belichick hasn't had a good defense in years.

[JesseNeckred]

honestly, I would have thought what Old Fan said was obvious

well said sir, well said

the beautiful thing about the NFL, and something I know you fully understand is teams never need to be #1 on either side of the ball in order to go to the promised land

if we hold onto the Shanny crew, and don't Campbellize RG3, this will be a very fun team to watch years to come, super bowls or not (though to be fair, I believe RG3 could adjust better to different systems than mr Soup)

OF isn't anti or pro Snyder, nor was he bashing him, but like me Old Fan is pro-Redskins

[Oldfan]

Gotcha.

That's the tricky part though: finding that happy medium between hands off and the debacle that he was with Vinny. Should we complete the comeback this season (win the division) and roll through next season, would you say Shanny has turned the corner?

I'm not going to speculate on how much success would take to do it, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong about Mike Shanahan. Meanwhile, my opinion is that we need to keep him or at least continuity with his scheme for Robert's sake.

[Hitman21ST]

From my OP -- My goal would be to build the number one team in the NFL and to hold that position indefinitely. Does that sound like I'd settle for the achievement of the Saints or the Colts? Beating Belichik and the kind of success he had with the Patriots would be my goal.

I know that you don't think Shanny can do that, so I'm not going to try to argue that point (I've finally figured that out ). But Belichick has had most of his successes without really focusing on the D. When he first took over the Pats, he was a defensive guy, but he seems to have changed to an offensive mind - this was the first draft that he really focused on his defense in who knows how many years. I think he even had one year of a defense that was almost as bad as ours this year. If we can achieve similar successes (winning the division 5-10 years straight) that would be what you envision, right?

---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 06:47 PM ----------

I'm not going to speculate on how much success would take to do it, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong about Mike Shanahan. Meanwhile, my opinion is that we need to keep him or at least continuity with his scheme for Robert's sake.

Gotcha. Nevermind on the question on my previous post. Are you of the opinion that it's just Mike or that we should keep Kyle too?

[Oldfan]

Have the Giants -- Coughlin/Reese surpassed Belichick? Been awhile since Belichick has won a superbowl and while the Giants haven't matched the Patriots W-L record, they have beaten them in the Superbowl twice and Reese has built a more balanced team, Belichick hasn't had a good defense in years.

No, the Giants organization isn't even close to being #1. Their team, on its best day, matches up well for an upset of the Patriots and they had two of their best days in Super Bowls. If they regress to the mean, they won't win another Super Bowl for 40 years.

---------- Post added November-23rd-2012 at 06:51 PM ----------

...Gotcha. Nevermind on the question on my previous post. Are you of the opinion that it's just Mike or that we should keep Kyle too?

Don't need both. Just keep continuity with the scheme. Does that make sense to you?