The Almighty Quarterback Bandwagon Runs Out of Control

[Oldfan]

I think you should factor in reading the defense, audibles and adjustments made on every offensive down. Not to mention handoffs. The ball touches the QB's hands virtually every offensive play.

I counted the passing plays, they include all the talents need to pass the football.

I didn't count the handoffs because the argument that he "touches the ball on every play" is weak. That's what someone says when they are trying to add value that doesn't exist. I gave him credit for being worth as much as his 10 teammates on offense put together. That's probably generous.

---------- Post added November-27th-2012 at 12:18 PM ----------

After 14 years with the colts, I'm sure his first choice scenario was starting over with another team in the twilight of his career.

It was either that or start over with new coaches and new teammates. As it was, he could take the scheme to Denver who has far more talent especially on defense and special teams than the Colts team he left.

Peyton's either very lucky or he planned very well.

[Dan T.]

RGIII is already the most important player in Redskins' history.

Excluding Sammy Baugh (who played a sport that I am not convinced is actually football)...he is already the greatest QB in Redskins history.

Better than Sonny. Better than Joe T. Better than Rypien.

Not yet. The stars are aligning, and the supernova is so bright you need welder's googles, but it's still too early.

[wrecker]

RGIII is already the most important player in Redskins' history.

Excluding Sammy Baugh (who played a sport that I am not convinced is actually football)...he is already the greatest QB in Redskins history.

Better than Sonny. Better than Joe T. Better than Rypien.

[Oldfan]

Yep, watched the better part of both games and I thought they were competitive. They lost to the Ravens by 3 in a game where it became obvious that Leftwhich couldn't throw the ball due to injury in the second half. Against Cleveland they were within a touchdown in a game where they lost 5 fumbles.

Were the Steelers not like 5-2 back when Ben was suspended a couple of years back?

Besides, nobody's denying that a good starting QB is the most important position player. I don't know why repetition of that point doesn't eventually sink in.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd say that statement would be stronger if you had Montgomery instead of Lich. I'm not sure why our own fans can't just admit a guy is good. People keep judging Montgomery playing out of position, he's a CENTER, and a pretty good one. He is, however, not much of a guard.

I personally don't think he's much more than a quality back-up center in an ideal World. His run blocking has been stellar this year. His pass pro still leaves a lot to be desired. We could do with a serious upgrade on the line from the center right across the right side IMHO.

Hopefully, one or two of the past draftees turn out to be a solution over time.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

Were the Steelers not like 5-2 back when Ben was suspended a couple of years back?

Besides, nobody's denying that a good starting QB is the most important position player. I don't know why repetition of that point doesn't eventually sink in.

IIRC the Steeler won more then they lost when Ben was out some time ago.

Remember when the Charger were top 5 in scoring and in defense yet failed to make the playoffs? Their special teams were league worst that year.

[ddub52]

I counted the passing plays, they include all the talents need to pass the football.

I didn't count the handoffs because the argument that he "touches the ball on every play" is weak. That's what someone says when they are trying to add value that doesn't exist. I gave him credit for being worth as much as his 10 teammates on offense put together. That's probably generous.

---------- Post added November-27th-2012 at 12:18 PM ----------

It was either that or start over with new coaches and new teammates. As it was, he could take the scheme to Denver who has far more talent especially on defense and special teams than the Colts team he left.

Peyton's either very lucky or he planned very well.

Why is that argument weak? If he audibles out of the pass and into a more effective run play, does that not give him extra value?

[Oldfan]

I personally don't think he's much more than a quality back-up center in an ideal World. His run blocking has been stellar this year. His pass pro still leaves a lot to be desired. We could do with a serious upgrade on the line from the center right across the right side IMHO.

Hopefully, one or two of the past draftees turn out to be a solution over time.

Hail.

The larger O-line question is: What will Mike do if defenses become adept at keeping Robert in the pocket as they try to do with Romo? I have no doubt that RG3 can pass from the pocket, but that smaller O-line isn't very good at protecting him.

[darrelgreenie]

http://www.thehogs.net/blogs/wp-cont...00-500x312.jpg

^^I love it.

[Oldfan]

Why is that argument weak? If he audibles out of the pass and into a more effective run play, does that not give him extra value?

I'm having trouble getting you guys to separate the average position value from the QB's talent. As I explained in the OP, they are two different factors.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yep, watched the better part of both games and I thought they were competitive. They lost to the Ravens by 3 in a game where it became obvious that Leftwhich couldn't throw the ball due to injury in the second half. Against Cleveland they were within a touchdown in a game where they lost 5 fumbles.

Okay. They are not competitive on offense without him.

[ddub52]

I'm having trouble getting you guys to separate the position value from the QB's talent. As I explained in the OP, they are two different factors.

I get the point that you are attempting to make, but I think that what the QB reads and adjusts to makes an impact on every play. Every QB makes them on every single offensive play. That should add some value imo.

[darrelgreenie]

Okay. They are not competitive on offense without him.

I'm not sure what you mean by competitive on offense?
Is it possible for a team to be non-competitive on offense and still be a competitive team?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not sure what you mean by competitive on offense?
Is it possible for a team to be non-competitive on offense and still be a competitive team?

Jesus Christ.

They are freaking dreadful on offense without him.

There.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The QB is not only heavily responsible for the success of the passing game, but the ability to scramble and make plays off designed runs, and create big plays downfield, significantly impacts the effectiveness of the zone blocking scheme.

Just using the players on the field (ignoring coaching and training because those are a bit harder to quantify), the QB would account for 33-40% of the passing (the average QB would account for 20-25%) and 20-25% of the running game (the average QB would account for 5-10% of the running)

So factoring all that in, I'd say the QB in Shanahan's scheme is closer to 10-20% of the total team performance, at the least. And because of how relatively close the NFL is in terms of performance, it makes having an elite QB with top-tier physical attributes both far more important to the Shanahan scheme, magnifying the effects of having one (as HC/OC, 3 Super Bowls in a 5 year stretch from 1994-1998 with Steve Young and John Elway as well as two Super Bowl appearances in the 80s as OC) and of not having one (1 playoff win in a 12 year stretch with Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler (who was still in development when Mike was fired), Donovan McNabb and Rex Grossman).

Contrast this with Joe Gibbs's style of team structure, in which decent pocket passing QBs can win Super Bowls backed by a dominant offensive line, 3 Pro Bowl caliber receivers, and a strong defense filled with depth and talent.

I don't really think that style of play is feasible in the modern era - the salary cap and the draft are major leveling factors. It's financially impossible to sustain a team like those Redskins teams had - unless you signed the Hogs to 7 year deals at the start of their careers, eventually, someone would offer all of them large free agent contracts and you'd have to pick and choose who to keep and who to replace, same with the receivers. And without the more lax IR rules and the smaller roster sizes that allowed Gibbs to stash and develop developmental players almost endlessly, a modern team can't have a deep pipeline of talent to step in once the starters are signed away (it's funny how the Redskins have been screwed by the rules long before Mara came along)