NYT Warren Buffet - A Minimum Tax for the Wealthy

[Destino]

I don't think too many people are claiming that those who make $250,000+ a year are middle class...

250k in household income with little to show in terms of assets is not "rich". Rich IMO is more assets than it is traditional income. Does that 250k number even include capital gains? If not than it's somewhat meaningless.

[The Evil Genius]

250k in household income with little to show in terms of assets is not "rich". Rich IMO is more assets than it is traditional income. Does that 250k number even include capital gains? If not than it's somewhat meaningless.

If you make more than 97-98% of all households in a year, you are rich.

Sorry.

[PeterMP]

You know what isn't impressive.

People that put out basic and worthless talking points in an effort to debunk detailed analyses.

[endzone_dave]

Seeing Black Friday videos of mobs of people clawing at each other to get cheaper smart phones and tvs makes be believe most people could afford to pay more taxes. We could start paying that debt down.

[nyskinsfan56]

If you make more than 97-98% of all households in a year, you are rich.

Sorry.

Sorry. But that is complete crap. Are you even taking into account cost of living differences around the country? Are you seriously saying 250k in the NYC area is rich? Yet if we moved to the midwest making maybe 75% of that with the same standard of living we have now we would be middle class. That makes absolutely no sense. You can't just put a simple dollar amount on middle class. Sorry, but we are middle class here. Certainly not poor, but if you think we're living high on the hog on that type of salary you're blind.

[Special K]

You got any proposals for our "out-of-control entitlement programs" that you'd like to make?

Yeah...a few

I would probably start with attempting to reform aspects of social security, namely raising the age requirements.

I would cut back the length of time one has to collect unemployment back to pre-Obama extension levels.

I would not promise college-age Wall Street Occupiers that I will help them pay back their student loans if they just vote me in one more term...

I would hesitate to continue bailing out banks and auto-manufacturers

I would reign in FEMA size and spending. This is just my opinion based on my experience with the agency and witnessing the almost sinful amount of monetary waste and inefficiency displayed within the agency (I agree the agency should exist, but I think it should be downsized).

Hell, I'd cut out the FDA program I currenly work for (even though it is not an entitlement program by any means). It is a completely redundant program that, IMO, spends a hell of a lot more money than necessary to obtain the exact same results that state inspectors already get with their inspections.

These examples are just a few things I would like to see addressed. Also, I'm not claiming to know everything about our economy, tax structure, etc.

Just one of the things that really annoys me is people classifying who is "rich," then saying crap like "I don't feel sorry for them, they should fork over their money anyway, As if people making $250,000 are just rolling around in the dough and wiping their asses with Benjamins.

Basically, I'm just tired of the attitude that one segment of the population almost resents another segment and feel it is acceptable to just take whatever from them because they've determined they don't "need" their money. That's what leaves a sour taste in my mouth about the whole tax debate. I'm willing to be open minded about different tax proposals, but I get turned off very quickly when some people (not all, and not most on this board) almost villainize top earners and say they don't need their money anyway. I just don't like that mindset.

[Larry]

Sorry. But that is complete crap.

Gee. How can someone dispute such a well-supported, fact-filled, rebuttal as that?

Are you even taking into account cost of living differences around the country? Are you seriously saying 250k in the NYC area is rich? Yet if we moved to the midwest making maybe 75% of that with the same standard of living we have now we would be middle class. That makes absolutely no sense. You can't just put a simple dollar amount on middle class. Sorry, but we are middle class here. Certainly not poor, but if you think we're living high on the hog on that type of salary you're blind.

Wiki: Highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States

1 San Francisco–Oakland–San Jose $63,024

12 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island $50,795

Looking around, I observe that the median household income in Beverley Hills is $81K. In Scarsdale it's $183K.


Looks to me like a hypothetical household making $250K in the New York metro is making 5 times the median household income. In San Francisco, (the metro area with the highest median household income in the US), a hypothetical $250K is 4 times the median.

Now, if your definition is "middle class" is "everybody else in my subdivision makes about what I make, and there are other subdivisions where everybody makes more", then yeah, I assume that those hypothetical people are middle class.

[endzone_dave]

In the DC area. it's not that hard for a husband and wife to make $250K. I have engineers working for me making $125K. So a couple of engineers married to each other are rich and at the same level as Warren Buffet? That's silly.

[Jumbo]

You know what isn't impressive.

People that put out basic and worthless talking points in an effort to debunk detailed analyses.

Ladies and worms...PeterMP throwing down.

And well said.

[Larry]

Yeah...a few

I would probably start with attempting to reform aspects of social security, namely raising the age requirements.

IMO, an excellent idea. I've been proposing it for 10 years.

I would cut back the length of time one has to collect unemployment back to pre-Obama extension levels.

That's a temporary extension, made necessary to the sucky economy. No one is proposing to keep it there.

I would not promise college-age Wall Street Occupiers that I will help them pay back their student loans if they just vote me in one more term...

Good plan. Let's throw out political talking points.

Tell me, does your proposal actually have anything to do with any, you know, actual laws?

I would hesitate to continue bailing out banks and auto-manufacturers

Ah, so "preventing the collapse of the world's economy" is "out-of-control entitlement programs"?

I would reign in FEMA size and spending. This is just my opinion based on my experience with the agency and witnessing the almost sinful amount of monetary waste and inefficiency displayed within the agency (I agree the agency should exist, but I think it should be downsized).

Having trouble finding current numbers for how much FEMA spends, but I did find this:

Over the 10-year period from the beginning of fiscal year 1983 to the end of fiscal year 1992, annual obligations for FEMA's Presidential Disaster Relief Fund averaged $668 million a year in constant 1992 dollars, much of it deficit-financed. Congress provided $2.9 billion in supplemental FEMA disaster relief funds for Hurricanes Andrew and Iniki in 1992.[4] The FEMA share of disaster assistance for the 1993 floods in the Midwest will be at least $1.7 billion.

Now, if I look at those numbers, and make a SWAG (Straight Wild *** Guess) of $1B/year, then FEMA accounts for 1/3200 of federal spending.

Just one of the things that really annoys me is people classifying who is "rich," then saying crap like "I don't feel sorry for them, they should fork over their money anyway, As if people making $250,000 are just rolling around in the dough and wiping their asses with Benjamins.

Maybe you could point out the people who are saying that, then I can hate them, too.

All I see are people pointing out that a tax increase of 3%, only on the income that's above $250K, isn't going to be a disaster.

---------- Post added November-27th-2012 at 10:25 PM ----------

In the DC area. it's not that hard for a husband and wife to make $250K. I have engineers working for me making $125K. So a couple of engineers married to each other are rich and at the same level as Warren Buffet? That's silly.

I agree.

Gould you point out the person who said that $250K is the same as Warren Buffet? I could use some good silly.

See, me, all I see is people pointing out that $250K is an income that puts a tax return in the top 2-3% in the country, and that in their opinion, being in the top 2-3% of the country is "rich".

The first is a fact. And the second is a well supported opinion.

[twa]

a study showing how much you can take before the tipping point is worthwhile I suppose....if that is your desire

Just illustrates how far from impressive we have become imo

[Jumbo]

Just illustrates how far from impressive we have become imo

What do you mean "we", Kemo Sabe?

[Special K]

IMO, an excellent idea. I've been proposing it for 10 years.

Cool.

Also, you're right. I should not have said entitlement programs. I should have said entitlement programs AND other programs that aren't necessarily entitlement, but I see as a black hole that money is being thrown into

Tell me, does your proposal actually have anything to do with any, you know, actual laws?

I'm just going to ignore that overt interjection of patronizing smart-assness

Having trouble finding current numbers for how much FEMA spends, but I did find this:

Now, if I look at those numbers, and make a SWAG (Straight Wild *** Guess) of $1B/year, then FEMA accounts for 1/3200 of federal spending.

So, am I correct in assuming what you're alluding to is that since a program makes up such a small part of the federal budget, it's an issue not worth addressing?

Maybe you could point out the people who are saying that, then I can hate them, too.

Maybe you can actually read my post specifically stating I was not really talking about people in this thread or even forum in general

[Kosher Ham]

Unfortunately its not. A flat tax hits poor people much harder than rich people. If I'm only making $20k a year the loss of $5k at a 25% tax rate will hit me much harder than someone who loses $5 million making $20 million a year. He still has $15 million left, I am now well below the poverty line.

A flat tax is equal. Am I missing something here ? You are already paying around 22% ...and getting money back. That's an absurd statement.

But if you are not going that route...I agree with Special K ...mostly.

[nyskinsfan56]

Gee. How can someone dispute such a well-supported, fact-filled, rebuttal as that?



Wiki: Highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States

1 San Francisco–Oakland–San Jose $63,024

12 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island $50,795

Looking around, I observe that the median household income in Beverley Hills is $81K. In Scarsdale it's $183K.


Looks to me like a hypothetical household making $250K in the New York metro is making 5 times the median household income. In San Francisco, (the metro area with the highest median household income in the US), a hypothetical $250K is 4 times the median.

Now, if your definition is "middle class" is "everybody else in my subdivision makes about what I make, and there are other subdivisions where everybody makes more", then yeah, I assume that those hypothetical people are middle class.

You took the time to find these #'s but somehow didn't come up with any cost of living adjustments? Where is your well-supported, fact-filled rebuttal? Great when we only have to report half of the story.
Good to know though that we can quit our jobs tomorrow and live our lavish lifestyles forever because we're rich! So can all of the married cop/teacher combos around here because they bring in that type of income also.