This might be the deepest (and most controversial) MLB HOF ballot in a long time

[The Evil Genius]

The 2013 National Baseball Hall of Fame ballot is crazy.

Up for vote this year...

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Craig Biggio (3k+ hits)

Sammy Sosa

Mike Piazza (2nd best hitting catcher of all time?)

Curt Schilling

Mark McGwire (still)

and sadly not elected yet Jack Morris.

So who gets in?

Will Bonds transgressions be ignored by enough voters? How about the same for Clemens or Sosa?

[Kilmer17]

Piazza is a lock. I think Morris and Schilling get in.

I think hell will freeze before any of the Roiders get even close.

[The Evil Genius]

Schilling isn't first ballot worthy. I'm not even sold on him being HOF worthy. He barely has over 200 wins.

[Kilmer17]

Schilling isn't first ballot worthy. I'm not even sold on him being HOF worthy. He barely has over 200 wins.

I thought this was his second ballot?

I would agree then. His Post Season performances are what gets him in.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I thought this was his second ballot?

I would agree then. His Post Season performances are what gets him in.

Then Jack Morris should get in first.

[Dan T.]

Piazza is a lock. I think Morris and Schilling get in.

I think hell will freeze before any of the Roiders get even close.

Yet Piazza was suspected of steroid use as well, and admitted to using androstenedione early in his career. It's going to be tough for voters to muddle through the whole Steroid Era as these guys become HoF-eligible

[Stadium-Armory]

Biggio Piazza

[Heidenreich]

Every steroid person will eventually get into the hall of fame. As the younger media voter gets into the voting process, their votes will rise. It's the old guard that will keep them out for now.

I, personally, think Barry Bonds is a hall of famer. So is Roger Clemens. I know they both juiced, but I also know they were two of the best to ever play, BEFORE they ever injected.

Sosa has no chance until McGwire sniffs. Bonds and Clemens will make it in before either of them.....

[PeterMP]

Every steroid person will eventually get into the hall of fame. As the younger media voter gets into the voting process, their votes will rise. It's the old guard that will keep them out for now.

I, personally, think Barry Bonds is a hall of famer. So is Roger Clemens. I know they both juiced, but I also know they were two of the best to ever play, BEFORE they ever injected.

Sosa has no chance until McGwire sniffs. Bonds and Clemens will make it in before either of them.....

The fact of the matter is that none of us know when they started injecting.

Clemens had surgery in 1985 to repair a torn rotator cuff.

Can you really sit here today and say he didn't start doing steriods after that surgery to help him recover?

[Spaceman Spiff]

The fact of the matter is that none of us know when they started injecting.

Clemens had surgery in 1985 to repair a torn rotator cuff.

Can you really sit here today and say he didn't start doing steriods after that surgery to help him recover?

Clemens started working with McNamee when he joined the Blue Jays in the late 1990's.

I've been looking for the past 10 minutes but I can't find the article that talked about the first time Clemens juiced. IIRC it was before a start against Baltimore.

Ultimately, you're right...but it doesn't take much to see when Bonds started putting up massive power numbers and the changes in his body composition.

I used to be really against the PED-ers...now I really don't care as much. Clemens and Bonds were HoF caliber guys before they started juicing, this is true.

The guy I feel sorry for in all this is Bagwell. Not named in the Mitchell report, not ever mentioned in any rumors...but due to a muscular physique, writers just made assumptions. He put up sick numbers in his career.

[First Colony]

Every steroid person will eventually get into the hall of fame. As the younger media voter gets into the voting process, their votes will rise. It's the old guard that will keep them out for now.

I, personally, think Barry Bonds is a hall of famer. So is Roger Clemens. I know they both juiced, but I also know they were two of the best to ever play, BEFORE they ever injected.

Sosa has no chance until McGwire sniffs. Bonds and Clemens will make it in before either of them.....

Baseball HOF is still chosen by just the writers (BBWAA), so the "younger media voters" don't really exist. Personally, I think they should expand the voters to include broadcasters, writers and maybe even some from new media.
Morris should certainly be in-not sold on Schilling.
Piazza will be there as well.

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Every steroid person will eventually get into the hall of fame. As the younger media voter gets into the voting process, their votes will rise. It's the old guard that will keep them out for now.

I, personally, think Barry Bonds is a hall of famer. So is Roger Clemens. I know they both juiced, but I also know they were two of the best to ever play, BEFORE they ever injected.

Sosa has no chance until McGwire sniffs. Bonds and Clemens will make it in before either of them.....

Yeah you're right they both juiced, but so did everyone else. Some estimates are that half of baseball used them at one point. I agree with you. Baseball "purists" want to pretend the game was clean and perfect in the old days. They cheated even more back then and black players couldnt play.

[Bang]

Yeah you're right they both juiced, but so did everyone else. Some estimates are that half of baseball used them at one point. I agree with you. Baseball "purists" want to pretend the game was clean and perfect in the old days. They cheated even more back then and black players couldnt play.

Proof is required.

As it is, we have proof Bonds cheated, so F him.
McGuire admits to cheating, so F him.
Sosa cheated, so F him
Palmeiro cheated, so F him.
etc. etc. etc.


These clowns smashed records due to proven cheating.
No other reason. People can argue all day long about how great Bonds was before he juiced, but that doesn't matter. He juiced, and suddenly "broke" Hank Aaron's record. Doesn't count in my book.
No Hall for them.... except maybe to have a display of the cheaters who would be enshrined if not for their cheating. Something like a Monument to Shame.

~Bang

[Dan T.]

These clowns smashed records due to proven cheating.
No other reason. People can argue all day long about how great Bonds was before he juiced, but that doesn't matter. He juiced, and suddenly "broke" Hank Aaron's record. Doesn't count in my book.
No Hall for them.... except maybe to have a display of the cheaters who would be enshrined if not for their cheating. Something like a Monument to Shame.

~Bang

I went to Cooperstown in April 2011. All those guys are represented there in some way, short of plaques in the Hall itself - photographs, bats used, lists of records, etc. The Hall of Fame is wrestling with how to cope with the Steroid Era from a historical perspective. They even had a sign up that said, (paraphrasing) "We're trying to figure out how to represent this era in the context of baseball history. Stay tuned."

[Bang]

I went to Cooperstown in April 2011. All those guys are represented there in some way, short of plaques in the Hall itself - photographs, bats used, lists of records, etc. The Hall of Fame is wrestling with how to cope with the Steroid Era from a historical perspective. They even had a sign up that said, (paraphrasing) "We're trying to figure out how to represent this era in the context of baseball history. Stay tuned."

Call it the asterisk era, and say all marks set in this era by these known cheaters should be taken with a grain of salt.
they ought to show before and after photos of these guys, they ought to show every bit of evidence against them, and they ought to make it clear that this was a dark period in the history of baseball, and that these people cheated the spirit of the game, and the spirit of human competition.


Cheats and Liars.
That's what they should name the wing in Cooperstown for them.

~Bang

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 04:04 PM ----------

What will you say if it's found Ripkin used steroids to heal quicker allowing his games streak? ...you may as well make players like Billy Ripkin a HOF because that's about how memorable the remaining players will be.

Palmeiro was my favorite player.
I defended him when he wagged his finger at everyone in Congress for daring to question him, but then when it came out he not only cheated, but came up with a cockamamie story like 'i sat on a needle Miguel Tejada left on a cab seat." then he was instantly dropped from any ranks of respect I ever had.
He's as worthless as any liar... and deplorable as any cheat.
He was my favorite player. Took about 1 second to change that. (and it hurt.. i'm a red blooded American boy.. i like my baseball players.. and i like having a favorite player. For a comparison as to how I felt, I'm also a Penn st. football fan. The hurt was about equal. As it is now, Adam Jones is my favorite. Hope he staysd clean!)

IF they ever find out Ripken did, then it would be the same thing. I'd be very sad, but if it came out true, oh well.
but that's a big IF, and not really worth bringing up, since there's not even a wisp of smoke surrounding that one. I'd be shocked. He's been about as great an example of what a ballplayer should be as i can ever remember. I'd hate to find out any of it was false.


And if Billy Ripken is all that can represent that era without steroids, then that era goes without mention, except in the new Cheats and Liars wing.

~BAng