Last edited by Sticksboi05; December-6th-2012 at 10:58 AM.
I don't know, FIFTH?
Redskins 2013 Opponents:
Home- Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, Kansas City, San Diego
Away- Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Green Bay, Minnesota, Atlanta, Denver, Oakland
If Jordan didn't retire the first time, does Hakeem ever get his rings? Honestly, as transcendent as he was in 93 & 94, I don't think he would. I don't think Jordan loses a finals at that point in his career.
So if Hakeem doesn't win his rings, where does he rank all time? Probably a lot lower. I think those big men of his era end up getting way underrated because the Celtics and Lakers and Pistons were so loaded nobody could beat them and then they couldn't beat Jordan when he finally got a team around him capable of being a vehicle to his greatness. But I bet if you take Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, and Hakeem out of that era and put them in the 70's, 2000's, or 2010's or give them better teams in the 80's they would have ripped through the league. Those guys were extraordinary players that excelled in all aspects of their positions. Their skill level was just so superior compared to anything we've seen from everyone but Duncan and KG since.
Elton Brand never would have been one of the best bigs in the league with Barkley, Ewing, Malone, or Robinson around, that's for damn sure. And I doubt Shaq gets close to four rings if those guys had come into the league at the same time as him.
---------- Post added December-6th-2012 at 12:10 PM ----------
I think Kareem is #2 behind Jordan. If you look at his whole basketball career including his time at UCLA, I think he's arguably the greatest basketball player in American history, just a bit ahead of Jordan.
But just off of NBA history, which is all anyone usually cares about, I'd say he's #2.
But a SF giving you 28/10/6 a game while being lethally clutch and good in a team defensive system is pretty much impossible to go against.
---------- Post added December-6th-2012 at 12:20 PM ----------
In a land of freedom we are held hostage by the tyranny of political correctness. ~RGIII~
Kareem had the most unstoppable shot in the history of the game. But as a total basketball player, which as minimal weaknesses as anyone who ever played. I gotta give it to MJ.
-superior perimeter defender
-possessed the ability to facilitate, in the mode of a PG
-One of the hardest workers on his game
-Made his teammates better
His only weakness, IMO was his 3 point shooting. Kareem was an all time great, he's not above or on par with MJ, IMO. No one is.
---------- Post added December-6th-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------
Ultimately it's impossible to answer this question as there are far too many variables and nobody can agree how to weigh each of them. But it's fascinating to observe how small differences could completely shift opinion. If Jordan is called for the offensive foul in the 1998 finals, maybe the Jazz win that series. Suddenly Malone's career is viewed infinitely more favorably. All from changing 5 quarters of basketball over a 15+ year career, we completely change how effective of a player we think Malone is.
There is no way that winning those 2 games makes Malone 20% better at basketball, but winning them would have convinced everyone he was better by an even greater factor than 20%.
- Elgine Baylor ( all time franchise record for points per game )
- Shaq ( dominated, lead league in shot percentage, rebounding, and defense inside )
- George Mikan ( Changed the Game, dominated, lead league in shot percentage, rebounding, and defense inside )
- Kobi ( at best he's a poor jordan, moody without the leadership skills, at worse and often a good Alan Iverson ).
- Jerry West
- Jamaal Wilkes
- Gail Goodrich
On a bright side, he's be #1 for many franchises in the NBA... But not the Lakers or Celtics.
Last edited by JMS; December-6th-2012 at 11:46 AM.
Say what you will about Hakeem benefitting from Jordan's baseball sabbatical, but that "Dream Shake" move he put on David Robinson is probably the most incredible set of moves I've ever seen out of a big man.
Last edited by Forehead; December-6th-2012 at 11:54 AM.
Kobe is a better all around player than Elgin was and he's played at a top level for a much longer period than Elgin did. Elgin was great and people are blown away when they see his crazy numbers but I don't think people account for the pace of the NBA he played in when they remember him. When you adjust for pace and efficiency and factor in his team success and surrounding talent, he comes out as a lesser player than Kobe IMO. Sure he has all of these signature shots that were crazy but what about all of the ones he missed? He was a forward that shot .431 for his career. Less efficient than Kobe. The NBA was full of chuckers back then and they played at a breakneck pace.
When all is said and done, I think Kobe will definitely be remembered as a better Laker than Magic. Magic was not the two way player Kobe used to be and benefited from playing on much better teams throughout his career than Kobe did (which is saying something, because Kobe has had some great teams). Kobe is going to play for at lot longer than Magic did.
Wilt played only a small portion of his career for the Lakers, I don't think they get to claim him. His most meaningful years of his career were really played in San Francisco and Philly. If anyone gets to claim him, it's them IMO. Sure, if you want to include him on the list of best players to don a Lakers jersey, he's #2. But I don't think he's remembered as a Laker.
Mikan was dominant year, but I just can't get behind him. The NBA was a joke back then when he played. The level of professionalism and competitiveness between then and now are so different, it's like they're not even playing the same sport.
Kobe is also a better Laker than Shaq, who really did not play that many years of his career there.
I think Kobe will go down as a better player than Shaq outright. Shaq left a lot on the table and he caused rifts in almost every organization he ever went to. People let Shaq off the hook and blame Kobe for the split in LA, and while he might have forced management to choose him over Shaq, Shaq was no saint. He burned down a couple organizations in his day and was just as difficult as Kobe.
I put Kobe #2 for the Lakers by the time he hangs it up. He's spent his entire career there and he's played at a high level for almost all of it. He won two rings as the man on his team and he's put up crazy numbers, and will continue to do so for years more.
Last edited by stevemcqueen1; December-6th-2012 at 12:09 PM.
It was really Bird's house.. He paid for it, he cut the grass and did all the yard work, but he put it in her name. In the book he specifically talks about doing all the work himself on the new court in order to save money...
Bird is one of the cheapest dudes alive. At every social occasion in the book Bird talks about how much the people he was with were spending even for things such as cocktails and beer. When agents bought beer from him
while recruiting him to be an NBA player (agent for Indianapolis), Bird was so impressed with it he itemized what they had spent in his autobiography. Noting that's the first time he had ever had Heineken, and the first time he had every seen anybody
use the bar in a hotel room. Also noting he could have purchased an entire six pack for what the agent has spent. Bird chuckled to himself that he had even gotten a second beer, and ultimately didn't sign with the Pacers.
spoke of his father. Helping his father on with his boots after his father had broken his foot as his father was trying to get to work in the morning, because that's what working men did. Work hurt if they had too. That made
a big impression on Bird. But Bird was also very cheap, counted every penny, and was amused when he saw others spending money needlessly even if the focus was a $5 beer
at the Olympics which Patrick Ewing bought for Bird. Bird felt the need to go up to Patrick and make sure he knew how expensive the beer was at the hotel.
Patrick didn't know, and seemed confused by Bird's concern.
Bird didn't really like Patrick Ewing. It was common for Bird to avoid getting to know the people he competed against and building up disdain for them. when Ewing purhased the beer for Bird and his Girl Friend; Bird felt the obligation to hang out and chat with him. They became pretty good friends through the Olympic Dream Team according to Bird.
Last edited by JMS; December-6th-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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