Andy Polin & Steve Czban removed from ESPN980s Sports Reporters

[CrazyZeb]

Knoche's my favorite weekly guest. He'd be much easier to dump from the show if they wanted to.

[greenspandan]

What is the correct way to refer to the person as?

the correct way to refer to a transgender person is by the gender they identify as. in Ms. Ludwig's case, female pronouns such as "she" and "her" are appropriate. (side note: you don't get to assign her a gender of your choice). there is plenty of interesting debate and conversation to be had on the issue of transgender athletes, but the fundamental starting point must at least be to agree to grant them human dignity.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 12:59 PM ----------

Exactly!! I find it impossible to look at this individual and say that this is a "woman". For me to do so, i would have to set aside all common sense, which i'm unwilling to do. But, you know what, i also believe in "Live & Let Live".

they weren't suspended for arguing against letting her play. they were suspended for referring to her as "it".

[JMS]

You know I'm all about tolerance and all, and I didn't hear the show; But it's really hard for me to believe Czban or Andy crossed any line.... These guys entire show is arguing with each other and their guests not in a mean spirited way but as family does it.
They are overly familiar with each other and their guests. I guess I just don't think either has a mean bone in their bodies and thus should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[Wrong Direction]

the correct way to refer to a transgender person is by the gender they identify as. in Ms. Ludwig's case, female pronouns such as "she" and "her" are appropriate.

I'm illustrating absurdity with the absurd here, but if they sewed a trunk on my face, could I make people call me an elephant?

I'm not looking to pick a fight with anyone and I do think name calling is wrong, but surgery plus something like "state of mind" does not reverse what genetics made you much less completely reverse the anatomy you were born with. I think I'd be much more accurate in referring to this person as him than anyone else who refers to him as her.

Moreover, with respect to Czaban, I know the guy is provocative, but this is one example where I think the public discussion of an issue hasn't fully developed. In a way, this is an opportunity to help it develop. I think he deserves not much more than a short suspension for this.

(side note: you don't get to assign her a gender of your choice).

This is correct, but it also applies in the first person.

[skinswillwin06]

I didn't think it was all that bad. A little rude I guess.

[authentic]

I think I may be in the minority, but I think the Sports Reporters is the best show on 980, they're knowledge is some of the best I heard on any sports show. Tony K is not bad, but anything was better than John Thompson's mind numbing sleep fest (thank god it's over with).

IDK about the best show.. but, they are entertaining, though i don't always agree with them. I don't find Czabe or Andy to be malicious guys.

[DCsportsfan53]

the correct way to refer to a transgender person is by the gender they identify as. in Ms. Ludwig's case, female pronouns such as "she" and "her" are appropriate. (side note: you don't get to assign her a gender of your choice). there is plenty of interesting debate and conversation to be had on the issue of transgender athletes, but the fundamental starting point must at least be to agree to grant them human dignity.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 12:59 PM ----------

See this is point I haven't gotten to yet. I'm all for gay marriage and I'm fine with people changing their genders to fit their personal image of themselves but I don't feel any shame or regret for looking at that person and thinking "that's a man, baby" no matter how that person self identifies. Maybe that's wrong, I don't know.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

What's the proper word when a person isn't willing to accept a transgender man as female? I'm not sure "it" is much more offensive than "he" in this situation. And then "she" is obviously incorrect as well.

Absolutely "it" is more offensive than "he". "It" completely dehumanizes the individual. If you don't want to except the person as a female, fine. Say "he". But don't call the person "it".

[Alaskins]

Who likes their show? I'm a fan of Tony K, Sports fix and the Locker Room show has grown on me. I hated it because I dislike Brian Mitchell but it has been enjoyable to listen to when I get a chance. I'm usually home by the time Sports Reporters is on but the times I have caught it, it didn't really appeal to me.

I begrudgingly admit that I am a fan. They both come of as anti-skins at times, but I find myself listening on the west coast via the ESPN app.

I guess I'll do anything for the local DC skins related media.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 07:17 PM ----------

See this is point I haven't gotten to yet. I'm all for gay marriage and I'm fine with people changing their genders to fit their personal image of themselves but I don't feel any shame or regret for looking at that person and thinking "that's a man, baby" no matter how that person self identifies. Maybe that's wrong, I don't know.

I'm right there with you. I'm all for whatever it takes for folks to feel happy about themselves... I have some close friends that are gay (and lesbian) and feel that they deserve happiness just as much as the next guy/gal. The transgender crowd deserves the same happiness, and I support them in seeking happiness. But I've seen some "really?" moments in my time.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I begrudgingly admit that I am a fan. They both come of as anti-skins at times, but I find myself listening on the west coast via the ESPN app.

I guess I'll do anything for the local DC skins related media.

WTF? But 106.7 (and their fans) tell me all the time that 980 is nothing but a shill for Snyder?

[Alaskins]

WTF? But 106.7 (and their fans) tell me all the time that 980 is nothing but a shill for Snyder?

LOL, I hear you. I've heard Czabe tout his "signed by Snyder" paycheck a few times as he's disagreed with some of the moves that the Skins have made. He was openly advocating for Shanny's head last year when I lived in MD. Oh how times have changed.

[Enter Apotheosis]

See this is point I haven't gotten to yet. I'm all for gay marriage and I'm fine with people changing their genders to fit their personal image of themselves but I don't feel any shame or regret for looking at that person and thinking "that's a man, baby" no matter how that person self identifies. Maybe that's wrong, I don't know.

I'm with you here. The current PC standard may be that you're supposed to identify people by their self-identified gender but it's much more natural to identify them by their apparent biological sex, IMO.

[stevemcqueen1]

"She" isn't the correct term either, as we're not talking about a woman are we? Just because a guy wants to be female doesn't make it so, and I don't think people should be forced to address them as such.

She is the correct term in this case. It's not incorrect.

You don't think we should be forced to respect another person?

How the transgender person identifies themselves is how they are referred.

Gender is not the same thing as sex. Gender is a social construction and a person can be a woman even though they were born anatomically male.

It's confusing to people who aren't familiar with transgender issues. That's the way I learned it though and I'm almost positive it's correct.

[VaSkinsNut]

She is the correct term in this case. It's not incorrect.

You don't think we should be forced to respect another person?

How the transgender person identifies themselves is how they are referred.

Gender is not the same thing as sex. Gender is a social construction and a person can be a woman even though they were born anatomically male.

It's confusing to people who aren't familiar with transgender issues. That's the way I learned it though and I'm almost positive it's correct.

When is gender a social thing? It's biological and no matter what hormones and plastic surgeries the person undergoes that won't change.

[terpskins10]

When is gender a social thing? It's biological and no matter what hormones and plastic surgeries the person undergoes that won't change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Sex is the biological identification of a person as male or female.

Gender, in present day context, is how a person identifies themselves socially.

As for Czabe and Pollin, I don't really care for them anyway. I think they were disrespectful. It isn't a social issue thing to me or anything like that...it's just how they treat someone who is different from them. Have a little more class and if you don't want to address the topic maturely, don't address it at all. I'm sure all of us could have done without a story regarding junior college women's basketball, transgender player or not.