Browns fan checking in, part deux

[JayDee99]

What's up, Skins nation?

I haven't come back here since the day before you guys made the trade for RG3...it would have been way too irritating to see all the celebrations going on here since I was gutted at the time. But what better week for me to pop back in than before what could be a meaningful clash for both teams? First, from Cleveland's POV...here's what's been going on:

Believe it or not, the Browns aren't entirely out of the wild card race in the AFC. I wrote off any possibility of having any shot at it after starting 0-5 since (IIRC) only one 0-3 team had ever qualified in the history of the league. In order for the Browns to qualify, they need a lot of things to happen...but the good news is the results Cleveland needs to go their way aren't patently absurd. The main thing is the Browns can't lose again...they need to finish 8-8 to have a shot, but the really good news is (for whatever reason) Cleveland would win tiebreakers with every other potential 8-8 AFC team. If the Eagles and Cowboys could pull out wins this week, Cleveland's chances would suddenly become pretty realistic. If both Cincy and Pitt win though, then Cleveland is eliminated.

Now, the Browns' three most recent wins against a Batch-led Steelers team, the crappy Raiders and even crappier Chiefs was anything but a murder's row schedule. But...those are the kinds of games the Browns would have either lost or won 9-6 in the past instead of thumping the Chiefs conclusively like they did this past week. They've looked a little bit better in each of their last three games...the win against Pitt was just ugly and fortunate, the win against the Raiders wasn't as close as the score would suggest, and I'm happy the Browns at least proved they aren't among the worst teams in the league by crushing KC. Here's one really interesting aspect of Cleveland's recent play you guys probably haven't noticed though...

Ever since Mike Holmgren was canned a month ago, Pat Shurmur seems far more comfortable on the sidelines. I have no idea why or what the potential connection could be, but he doesn't seem so paranoid/lost anymore and has actually managed games much more aggressively than he used to. I'm really anxious to see how we match up with better competition in our last three games...it'll probably go a long way towards deciding Shurmur's future as head coach here.

Anyway, good luck this week...it should be a fun one (with or without RG3). If you guys are headed to Cleveland and have tailgating/dining/hotel/whatever questions or recommendations, hit me up and I'll do my best to answer. I'm fully aware that I'm rooting for a longshot to happen with Cleveland making the playoffs, but Jesus...watching potentially meaningful December football sure beats the hell out of hoping the Browns lose for a better draft pick like I've been doing every year for the past decade...

[Pskins]

Welcome JayDee,

I grew up in the D.C. area during the first Gibbs era and I was spoiled rotten. We as Skins fans know exactly what you Browns fans are going through. After a succession of coaching hacks and duds it appears Dan Snyder learned his lesson and
turned the team over to people who know what they are doing. Watching the little Browns football I have seen this year I can say you guys have a SB caliber defense and a good QB in Weeden. This may not be your or our year in terms of playoffs but
neither team is a doormat anymore and that feels really good. Hail.

[Cooleyfan1993]

What's up, Skins nation?

I haven't come back here since the day before you guys made the trade for RG3...it would have been way too irritating to see all the celebrations going on here since I was gutted at the time. But what better week for me to pop back in than before what could be a meaningful clash for both teams? First, from Cleveland's POV...here's what's been going on:

<edit rule 11 violation--normally one week ban>.

11. Please do not use the “Quote” feature to quote any large sections of text.
It unnecessarily extends and clutters threads and is annoying.

If you would like to respond to the contents of a particular post, simply quote the sentence or idea that you're commenting upon, not the entire post if it's lengthy.

oh god, i would LOVE for the Redskins to be in the AFC. at least then it woudnt be as hard to get in to the playoffs with a 7-6 record like it is now, in the NFC. AFC has many bad teams. NFC is always tough during the playoff race.

[DogofWar1]

It should be a very good game I think. I would argue the Browns are the underdogs (pun somewhat intended), but not by a ton.

This is a winnable game for either team, but it's going to require Weedon to play at his peak. If he makes any mistakes, he will be punished for them, for while our defense isn't exactly stiffing, it can and does create turnovers. The Browns defense isn't bad, but it's fairly average, so we too should be able to score, provided we can avoid costly mistakes.

That being said, it's probably a low scoring affair.

One thing I noticed while perusing stats was that Cleveland has 8 fumbles, tied for 6th in the league, but when you actually look at fumbles lost, they have lost NONE, 0, of their fumbles, which is really darn impressive. Not really material, but interesting.

Anyways, I think there's an interesting storyline to be had here as we were both vying for Griffin, so this is sort of a "we didn't need you anyway" kind of game for CLE, while the Redskins, if RGIII plays will want to win to validate their picking of Griffin. If Griffin somehow doesn't play it sort of validates the Browns from the start, as they can say "look, he's injured, and our guy isn't," but then the game really becomes a must-win for the Browns, because losing to Cousins would really make it hard to validate the Weedon move.

So yeah, should be an exciting game all around.

[kevinklein]

Looking forward to Sunday man, and no one in DC is looking past the Browns. You guys have solid receivers against our patently terrible secondary, and nobody is turning their nose up at Trent Williams. I don't know much about your defense, but I reckon if RG3 plays, that's where you'll be outmatched.

Best of luck, and if you're going to the game, have fun.

[Cpt Chaos]

Thanks for sharing JayDee,

As I've said in other threads, I don't think there will be anything easy about this game--with or without RG3. While I haven't watched y'all much--just what I've seen on RedZone and SportsCenter--I've heard and read about your personnel.

I know that for the past few years, yall have had one of the better O-lines in the league--can't recall if you still have the same guys. Either way, it's clear T-Rich has re-established your run game since Peyton Hillis went AWOL.

I also understand that yall have a lot of SEC guys in your front seven on defense--crucial when playing in the AFC North. (Also validates the rumors that Nick Saban is interested in coming there if Michael Lombardi joins him as GM--I don't think it'll happen, though) I know your D-backs are at least decent--certainly better than ours--and you had to play the first quarter of the season without Joe Haden, which probably cost you a game or two.

Actually, yall are really comparable in some ways to the Skins roster from last year, the big difference being that you have a solid RB (T-Rich) and an emerging #1 WR (Josh Gordon). Y'all can compete with just about anybody in the league, and even upset some elite franchises on any given Sunday--we beat the Giants twice and almost the Patriots last year with Grossman/Beck. Yall beat the Steelers, dominated the Cowboys, and had the Giants on the ropes for most of the first half a few weeks ago.

I see the game this Sunday going either way, with a lot more offense than most people would expect in this match-up. The way our defense has played the past few years (even this season) this could be a banner day for Brandon Weedon--especially in the first half. I can't tell you how many times a new record--either for an individual, franchise or otherwise--has been set while playing us. (I know this because every time it happens the broadcaster mentions it and the graphic pops up and I want to kick a hole in my TV. For those of you that have been Skins fans for more than a couple of years, you know exactly what I'm talking about...)

I hope this isn't the case, cause I love the guys we have in our locker room, as well as our attitude..really want to see what we can in the playoffs right now...If RG3 plays, watch out...HAIL

[Farbod21]

Have you seen our defense? No team is a sure win for us. Hopefully we play well and Haz gets his head out of his ass long enough for us to stop your offense a few times...

[JayDee99]

Good stuff, guys...will try to respond to the points made:

- The strength of this Browns team is definitely the defense, especially the deep DL. Some major contributing factors in the Browns starting 0-5 IMO was Joe Haden's 4-game suspension for popping Adderol and Phil Taylor's injury that kept him out until late October. Sans Haden, the rest of the DB unit is mediocre at best...so other QBs just threw on our atrocious secondary all day long in the first five weeks. Can't really do that as much anymore. If the Browns could draft another DB like Dee Milliner, then our defense might become top 5 in the league IMO. Anyway, ever since Taylor has come back, the DL has been that much better. The team is pretty healthy now and it shows in their play. Still plenty of room for improvement, but the D seems to get a little better each week. They have a knack for creating key turnovers, and with the number they've created...I don't think they've just gotten lucky each time. We'll sure as hell have our hands full trying to stop RG3...but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm relieved he's not going to be at 100% if he's in there on Sunday.

- The jury is still out on whether not pursuing RG3 was a better move for Cleveland in the long run. Right now, I'd say it was...because we'd have basically given up Richardson and Weeden and a 1st next year (plus a bunch more) for the opportunity to put RG3 into an offense and ask him create yards almost entirely on his own. Cleveland's offense was God awful last year...averaging 13 ppg. We needed to fill as many holes as possible...and not with just marginal C- to C+ upgrades, but visible ones...ie going from a C- to a B+ or A-. Weeden, Richardson and Gordon have all done that. They're still learning to play with each other. Adding a beast guard like Chance Warmack would be enormous for our offense since our run blocking kind of sucks at times...

- As far as Weeden, he is going through some routine rookie ups and downs. He doesn't get through any game without at least one or two "Jesus Christ, how was THAT pass not picked off?!" throws. When he's on his game, though...he's terrific. I haven't watched your secondary much, but if it's a weakness, I guarantee Weeden will look to hit Gordon deep a few times.

- T-Rich has been mildly disappointing despite churning his way to a 1,000-yard rookie campaign. He picked up a rib injury early in the season and maybe isn't completely over it since he seems a little tentative at times. Browns fans are still waiting for his monster breakout game. Speaking of the running game, watch out for Monterio Hardesty this week. He comes in as a change-of-pace back every so often and rips off runs of 5-10 yards a pop, making it look easy. It's been nice to see him come around after spending the huge majority of his first two years injured.

- Like I mentioned before, I think the second half of the season is a better reflection of what kind of team the Browns really are. Shurmur still makes some really puzzling decisions, the team makes their share of dumb mistakes at the worst times, but then they show flashes of what they can become. This team finally seems to be on their way, which is why I think it'd be idiotic to stop the progress they've made and would be beyond stupid to bring in someone like Mike Lombardi who has failed at every position he's ever held. If our new owner Jimmy Haslam does that, then that may be the anvil that breaks the camel's back for a lot of Browns fans. Not one fan I know or have read wants anything to do with Lombardi, and for good reason.

- As another poster mentioned, I think this game is a tossup. Nothing would surprise me, as both teams have a bad habit of failing to show up on a given week. Even if RG3 doesn't play, the Vegas line of Cleveland -7 seems about 7 pts too high to me. I'd be really surprised if this game is a blowout either way. If you're going, then bundle up...early forecast is calling for snow. I wish I could go to this one, but I'm visiting my folks in CLE for XMas in two weeks, so I can't. Think you'll find Browns fans are pretty friendly to those of other teams (except in the AFC North).

[s0crates]

Welcome back. I thought you were a gracious poster the last time you were here, and I still think that after reading this. I would expect no less from a Cleveland Browns fan. I have to respect fans of teams who have had to endure years of woeful football. Believe me us 'skins fans know how you feel.

Plus my Dad is a big Brown's fan, so I have always had this soft spot for the Browns. To have heritage like Otto Graham and Jim Brown and yet suffer through the embarrassment of Modell moving the team and losing Belichick, and then watching the Purple Browns win it all a few years later. Well ouch. On any other day beside this Sunday, I would be pulling for you, but this Sunday its all about my 'skins. Hopefully the factory of sadness can churn out one more Browns loss to keep the 'skins playoff hopes alive.

I say hopefully because you have to respect a team coming off three straight wins and a very convincing win last week. The future is looking better for the Browns. They have some good young pieces to build around in Joe Thomas, a stout d-line, a good #1 corner, and a potential stud running back in Trent Richardson. I actually think the strong-armed Weeden can get the job done when he gets a bit more seasoning, but he has to be better than he has been considering how often he faces 8 in the box (and speaking of Weeden, don't you kind of wish they took Russell Wilson instead of stereotyping against short people?).

The defense has been playing well for Cleveland at times, and that coupled with their running game has kept them in almost every game until the end. I do not expect anything different in this contest. I expect this one will be close in the fourth quarter. The one thing that gives me some confidence is that Griffin and Cousins both have shown the ability to win games in the fourth quarter, which I expect they will need to do this week. I am not overconfident though. I am looking forward to a tough contest, and hoping my 'skins know better than to look past this game. It is one we should win, but if we go into thinking that we might not. This is a must win for us, as will be every game we play this season, I think we are up to the challenge, but I do not expect the Brownies to roll over for us either.

Here's hoping for a clean injury-free game.

[DC9]

JayDee...

I told you then that there was no one in Cleveland with the sack to outbid the Danny... so let's get that hahah out of the way real quick ; )

That said, the Browns are a team that is not indicative of their record. A real bunch of up and comers. I've had this game circled for two weeks as the one I would think the Redskins lose over our games against the Giants, Ravens, Eagles, and Cowboys...

Your guys are playing well.

What's the consensus in Cleveland for this weeks game against Washington? Just out of curiousity.

[Forehead]

You seem like a nice enough guy, but I'm going to be honest with you, I think most folks (this board included) are overrating your team and if Griffin was playing at or near 100%, you wouldn't have much of a chance. A small one of course, any given Sunday and all that, but small nonetheless.

- Your defense is ranked #23. A four game suspension to one CB and an injury to a NT doesn't suddenly cause a drop from top 10 defense to #23. Losing Carriker and Orakpo didn't make the Skins one of the worst defenses in the league, our awful secondary made us one of the worst defenses in the league. You have nine other players and multiple things going wrong to get to #23 overall. If you can't survive the injuries, there's a depth problem. Jarvis Jenkins and Rob Jackson have done a nice job filling in for us; our secondary would have been just as awful with Orakpo and Carriker in there. There are weaknesses in your defense somewhere that can be exploited.

- With Griffin, we actually have a dynamic offense, #5 overall currently, while Cleveland sits at #26. Which means we should be able to move the ball on your team the way we have most weeks. Your team will move the ball as well, but the offense just isn't good enough to completely expose how bad our secondary is. Weeden may be improving, but 13 TDs and 15 INTs isn't scary. You have Josh Gordon and then who? Greg Little, who's a 50/50 proposition to drop a pass? Our 6th round rookie RB is averaging 1.4 yards per carry more than your stud, and our O-line is worse than Clevelands. I know it's because folks load the box on him, but that only proves my point. It's because Weeden and the receivers don't command much respect. Richardson should have a better game against the Skins since we need all the help we can get on defense, but I don't foresee Cleveland lighting up the scoreboard.

- Your turnover margin is grossly inflated by that eight turnover game Pittsburgh gifted you. A game that, with eight turnovers, Cleveland still only managed to win by six points. Without it, your margin sits near 0, maybe slightly to the + side. Our turnover margin is I think 6th best in the league, and has been built steadily over the whole season. Which offense is more likely to cough the ball up once or twice at a crucial point in the game?

However, the fact is, Griffin is hurt, and may not play. If he doesn't, the read-option is out the window and our offense becomes much less dynamic, and Cleveland's chances become much, much better. With him, I don't think you have the firepower to keep up, and I think your defense is overrated. Improving yes. Better than the Redskins defense, yes. But still average at best. The injury was ill timed. Hopefully he plays near 100%, or Cousins comes in and improves his stock more for a future trade.

[Botched]

Holy ****. I didn't realize the Browns were still alive in the playoff race. I thought they were eliminated like 10 weeks ago. Hope you finish out 2 for 3.

[sideshow24]

You guys have solid receivers against our patently terrible secondary, and nobody is turning their nose up at Trent Williams..

Richardson?

[SirClintonPortis]

You seem like a nice enough guy, but I'm going to be honest with you, I think most folks (this board included) are overrating your team and if Griffin was playing at or near 100%, you wouldn't have much of a chance. A small one of course, any given Sunday and all that, but small nonetheless.

- Your defense is ranked #23. A four game suspension to one CB and an injury to a NT doesn't suddenly cause a drop from top 10 defense to #23. Losing Carriker and Orakpo didn't make the Skins one of the worst defenses in the league, our awful secondary made us one of the worst defenses in the league. You have nine other players and multiple things going wrong to get to #23 overall. If you can't survive the injuries, there's a depth problem. Jarvis Jenkins and Rob Jackson have done a nice job filling in for us; our secondary would have been just as awful with Orakpo and Carriker in there. There are weaknesses in your defense somewhere that can be exploited.

A nose tackle and their top cover corner gone. Seems very plausible, actually, since both positions are absolutely critical to the success of a 3-4.

[kleese]

I keep hearing the "Browns are better than their record indicates."

I disagree. They look like a 5-8 team to me. Similar to Buffalo, Miami, New Orleans, etc... Now, the Browns have more of an up arrow than say the Bills or Saints, but as of this moment, they are somewhere between average and a little below average.... More likely the latter. The Browns look like a 5-11 or 6-10 team to me and I think that's where they will wind up.

In the NFL today 6-10 teams are usually pretty close to being 10-6. There isn't a huge gap between those types of teams. But the 6-10 teams find ways to lose for a reason.

There are two teams in the league I wouldn't take seriously at all if we played them this Sunday (Chiefs, Cardinals). There are two more (Jags, Raiders) that I'd pay very little mind to. The rest? I take very seriously and understand that any of them can beat us in a given game... Especially if we are on the road.

The Browns are no joke. A competitive team that can beat us Sunday. But they are not good. We are better. We should win.