Browns fan checking in, part deux

[Forehead]

The Browns are no joke. A competitive team that can beat us Sunday. But they are not good. We are better. We should win.

I think Kleese summed it up in one sentence for me. I respect the Browns, certainly more than the Chiefs/Raiders, etc. And they are capable of beating us. But we are a better team. With Griffin, we're a much better team. With Cousins, it's closer. But Griffin's injury can not and should not be an excuse.

[Botched]

I think Kleese summed it up in one sentence for me. I respect the Browns, certainly more than the Chiefs/Raiders, etc. And they are capable of beating us. But we are a better team. With Griffin, we're a much better team. With Cousins, it's closer. But Griffin's injury can not and should not be an excuse.

I'd say if Bob is out, the Browns are the better team. Our defense stinks on ice, and our offense only works because our QB is such a threat.

[kevinklein]

Richardson?

It was late and I was drinking...

[Pick6]

The Browns gave up 180 rushing yards to KC. I saw we give Alfred Morris a healthy number of carries, with or without RG3. I also think the D is playing a lot better over that last 4 games. I could see us getting a few turnovers from the Browns.

[MustangSteve]

I'm fully aware that I'm rooting for a longshot to happen with Cleveland making the playoffs, but Jesus...watching potentially meaningful December football sure beats the hell out of hoping the Browns lose for a better draft pick like I've been doing every year for the past decade...

Us Redskins fans know this feeling very much lol. It's great to be in a playoff race period. To an injury free game, and always remember, may Dallas playoff chance always die!

[JayDee99]

You seem like a nice enough guy, but I'm going to be honest with you, I think most folks (this board included) are overrating your team and if Griffin was playing at or near 100%, you wouldn't have much of a chance.

- Your defense is ranked #23. A four game suspension to one CB and an injury to a NT doesn't suddenly cause a drop from top 10 defense to #23.

- With Griffin, we actually have a dynamic offense, #5 overall currently, while Cleveland sits at #26. Which means we should be able to move the ball on your team the way we have most weeks.

- Your turnover margin is grossly inflated by that eight turnover game Pittsburgh gifted you. A game that, with eight turnovers, Cleveland still only managed to win by six points.

I cut some of your stuff out to avoid pissing off the mods with a long quote, so I'll try to respond one by one...

- Any team that loses to Carolina at home can't say another team wouldn't have much of a chance against them.

- The Browns run a 4-3, and not a 3-4...but come on. You really think losing a starting DT and starting CB wouldn't have much of an impact on a defense's production? Plus Scott Fujita was suspended as a result of all the Bountygate crap...and while he wasn't a huge impact player, he did play his role on the D pretty well. Phil Taylor's return makes the DL all that much better. He's the guy who blows plays up in the middle of the line, which opens things up for pass rushers and LBs. We don't really have an elite pass rusher on the edge of the line, so the fact that the Browns have 34 sacks on the year is a testament to how well the DL has played and how much better the coverage has gotten since Haden returned.

- Even if Griffin was 100%, I'm not sure the Redskins would be able to just come in and walk right through Cleveland's defense. The Browns have only given up 20+ pts in two of their last seven games...one of which was OT at Dallas and the other was when we turned the ball over a few times in our own end against Baltimore, giving the Ravens a short field to work with. It's very much a bend-but-don't-break style D. Most of the games we lost were because of bad offense, not bad defense.

- Yeah, the turnover margin was high against the Steelers was high. Like I said, the Browns offense still isn't functioning at peak efficiency. But just one week later, the Batch-led Steelers went into Baltimore and got a win on the road...so maybe Cleveland's win over Pitt wasn't as bad or cheap as I originally made it out to be.

Btw, Pick6...the Browns gave up an 80-yd TD run to Jamaal Charles on the first play of the game last week, and then KC's offense didn't score again for the rest of the game. KC runs for about 150 per game, so that rushing yardage number was about in their wheelhouse.

[Forehead]

I didn't say you ran a 3-4, that was someone else, and I never said that losing a top CB and a great NT/DT didn't matter, I said two players shouldn't account for a 15 spot drop in the rankings. Meaning even with them, I don't think your defense is top 10 or anything. I think it's interesting that your sacks are so spread around...five players with at least three sacks but no one with more than five.

The Skins team that lost to Carolina is far different than the one we have right now. We're on a four game winning streak against pretty quality competition, the Eagles not withstanding. And I'd point out that your team is 0-5 this season against the teams we're on a winning streak against. Your defense runs a bend but don't break style of defense...so does ours, ours really, really bends. The difference is our defense manages to somehow consistently generate turnovers, whereas your defense would be around a 0 +/- rating if not for that Pittsburgh debacle. The Ravens are a bend-but-don't-break defense now as well, and the Skins just put up 31 points on them. I see that the Browns averaged 15.5 in two games against the Ravens this season. We hungs 38 on Dallas while you managed 20. We beat a downtrodden Philly team by 25 points, you lost to them by a point. Now I'll admit that Philly was stronger at the beginning of the year, but Vick did throw four interceptions that game. Of course, so did Weeden to even things out.

Speaking of, did I mention that our star QB (who looks to be playing now) rarely turns the ball over, while yours is coughing it up more than once per game, on average? So let's assume our offense stymies itself in the red zone a few times, gets a few field goals, punches it in once or twice with our #1 rated rushing attack. What are we looking at...23-27 points there? Are you expecting Brandon Weeden to keep up? Weeden, who in your seven game cherry-picked example, threw for under 200 yards in three of those games? He's going to average better than that against our secondary, no doubt, but enough to keep up with our offense? Griffin is the highest ranked QB in the NFL by passer rating right now, Weeden is #32. He's in Mark Sanchez territory.

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but I just don't see it happening if Griffin is operating near his usual efficiency. The defenses are equally below average...yours gives up slightly less yards and is better against the pass, ours is better against the run and creates more turnovers. The offenses are worlds apart though. I think the Browns are building something nice but I don't see it happening this year. Hell, one of the Skins biggest disadvantages is 3rd down defense...we can't get off the field. We're the absolute worst at it...and yet, the Browns offense is 3rd worst in the league at converting 3rd downs.

Not to mention, the Skins have more to play for...we actually have a legitimate shot at the playoffs, whereas the Browns need several teams to lose out to even think about it. The Skins should want it more, which does make a a difference. Good luck to you, I'm not writing you guys off or looking past the game. Lord knows no Skins fan should do that after the last 20 years. But this game should be a victory for the B&G.

[gortiz]

What's the consensus in Cleveland for this weeks game against Washington? Just out of curiousity.

I"m not going to lump the OP in this, but I went to look at one of the Browns larger message board, and dude, it's like a freakign jungle.

From making light of a Browns employee that committed suicide, to rumors about Gruden and Lombardi, it's nuts over there.

they are barely talking about RG3 or the Skins ... at least when I saw it yesterday.

Serioulsy, I feel like a surbanite kid living in nice neighborhood that got dropped off in the wrong side of town.

They seem to be riding pretty high on their team though ...

[kleese]

I"m not going to lump the OP in this, but I went to look at one of the Browns larger message board, and dude, it's like a freakign jungle.

From making light of a Browns employee that committed suicide, to rumors about Gruden and Lombardi, it's nuts over there.

they are barely talking about RG3 or the Skins ... at least when I saw it yesterday.

Serioulsy, I feel like a surbanite kid living in nice neighborhood that got dropped off in the wrong side of town.

They seem to be riding pretty high on their team though ...

Ha! I went and checked out a forum I beleive was called Browns Board? I felt icky and had to leave....

[httrburgundyandgold]

Don't sleep on the browns. We have a much better offense with RGIII, but they have a waaaaaay better defense. Last 6 games the best defense in the league for points allowed.

1. 49ers
2. Seahawks
3. Browns

This game can go either way.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Don't sleep on the browns. We have a much better offense with RGIII, but they have a waaaaaay better defense. Last 6 games the best defense in the league for points allowed.

1. 49ers
2. Seahawks
3. Browns

This game can go either way.

They did that playing against such offensive juggernauts as the Chiefs, Raiders, Chargers, and Batch-led Steelers. The Ravens and Cowboys are the only intact and competent offenses the Browns played in that stretch and they each scored their season average.

We have to respect their defense, for sure, but if Griffin is physically capable of playing like he usually does then they aren't what scares me most about this matchup. Josh Gordon deserves that honor.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I didn't say you ran a 3-4, that was someone else, and I never said that losing a top CB and a great NT/DT didn't matter, I said two players shouldn't account for a 15 spot drop in the rankings.

Redskins defense in 2011: 22.9 ppg while being last in the league in offensive TOs
Redskins defense in 2012 minus Orakpo and Carriker (and don't mention Meriweather and Jackson, they weren't here last year either): 25.3 ppg while being second to first in the league in offensive TOs (this should really tell you how much our D has regressed from last year)

Redskins 2011 defense: 13th in yards allowed
Redskins 2012 defense: 28th in yards allowed

Wow, what is that? A...15 spot drop in the rankings!

Basically, anyone who is looking past these Browns is overly optimistic to say the least. Weeden is going to be at worst an above average QB in this league. That defense has a lot of young talent and Haden is a legitimate shutdown CB. Sure they've shut down bad offenses, but we haven't even done that this year. And the Browns have mostly lost to rather tough teams (the week 1 Eagles are a different beast than the week 14 Eagles, for example). Worldbeaters? No. But are they a team we should look past? Absolutely not.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[Pick6]

Btw, Pick6...the Browns gave up an 80-yd TD run to Jamaal Charles on the first play of the game last week, and then KC's offense didn't score again for the rest of the game. KC runs for about 150 per game, so that rushing yardage number was about in their wheelhouse.

Yes, but the Skins are one of the best running teams in the league. Morris will probably put over a +100 yds on the Browns. Control the clock and the Redskins walk away with the W. The Brown's offense is not strong enough to put up points quickly.

[LegendaryNumber5]

I just was on r/Browns and some of the comments were hilarious.

"Don't worry, we'll have a tough game against Manning in Denver in a couple weeks."

[Phat Hog]

...watching potentially meaningful December football sure beats the hell out of hoping the Browns lose for a better draft pick like I've been doing every year for the past decade...

...dang bro, you could have been a Redskins fan with that last comment..LOL I know I have felt the same way for pretty much the last decade! Can't wish you good luck, but we can both root for no injuries...Skins have to run through the Eagles and over the cowgirls, and need 0 injuries out of this game!