Thoughts of a Negative Poster

[Chachi]

I am still unsure how this thread hasn't been closed / people have not been banned. Had a vast majority of posters made this thread and then turned it into a bait and switch for them to argue and make fun of others, they would have been banned a long time ago. This is a common theme with threads from OldFan. I am not a Fan and it is getting Old.

+1 close the thread. I'm going to go back to my previous routine of skipping his threads/posts in the future.

[elkabong82]

Okay, let's test this approach with the example I used in the OP. Your brain tells you that the Jason Taylor trade is likely to fail, but you can choose to believe that it is likely to succeed. Is that right?



Do you mean because Dan Snyder picks poor managers? It doesn't have to be true in a good organization.



You just switched positions from realistic pessimism to consistent pessimism which no one advocates.



I don't have a negative bias and a quick look at my recent thread history should prove that to impartial minds. My threads are negative when I feel there is good reason.



This thread is intended to skewer that minority group of homers who regard themselves as superior fans. They are as obnoxious right now as they have ever been.

First off, I was against the Jason Taylor trade because of his age and what we gave up. It was a knee-jerk reaction to injuries. However, I chose to be optimistic that he would do well because he was DMVP not that long ago. There were reasons for optimism and pessimism, but nobody knew what the likelihood would be at first, not even you. All we had were guesses. Nobody could have reasonably guessed that not only would we use him completely wrong, but that also a guy with no injury history would get an injury that was life-threatening. Plus, JT had a good season after leaving us and being used correctly again. Maybe your brain said he was likely to fail, but I think that is based more on your own biases than the evidence that was at hand. I didn't like the trade but that is because I thought he was a short-term solution. He was still talented and only the very pessimistic would have thought he would completely fail. Pessimism was more warranted when he was put at LDE, but that was not announced until a bit after the trade.

Pessimism is easier in all cases because the ultimate goal in the NFL is Superbowl, and only 1 in 32 will get accomplish that in a given season. Every team has reasons for pessimism, and in the case of all but team, those pessimistic fans will be right, even if their reasoning is wrong.

You have said before that the team will never win a Superbowl under Snyder's ownership, correct? If so, then that is consistent pessimism. Besides, that point about consistent pessimism was meant only to show a consequence of that POV. I realize that you weren't advocating that and was pretty clear in my entire post that I got that you were advocating reasonable/grounded perspectives.

I seem to recall weekly threads calling out the offense, and even when you made a thread where you changed opinion and said to keep Mike Shanahan for RG3's development, I believe you still said in there that we won't win a Superbowl with Snyder as owner nor with Mike as HC. You can't reasonably know that, it is pessimistic tone whether you admit it or not, and very recent threads aren't enough to trump trends and perceptions. Already having failure as a foregone conclusion on your opinion of the head coach is a negative bias.

Homers have reason to be optimistic right now. Consistent homerism is not superior, but believing in the team so long as they are not mathematically eliminated, despite reasonable evidence they won't succeed, requires faith. That faith is the mark of a superior fan IMO and yes, it is easier to be pessimistic than it is ti maintain that faith. 2005 and 2007 those playoff stretches required faith. The playoff run we are going for right now required a lot of faith before the Philly game and even now still requires faith. But so long as it is possible, superior fans have faith. You can have doubts, but you should always believe in the possibility rather than being pessimistic and assuming a conclusion of failure based solely on your perception of likelihood. The whole point of being a fan is to cheer for your team and believe in them. What is the harm in saying "I have my doubts, but the possibility of success still exists?" That is a reasonable stance, whereas "the team will never win under this head coach or owner" is not reasonable/grounded, though it is a much easier perspective to employ because the odds are with it.

Tempered expectations would have been a better thread title, but you said your intent was to counter rampant homerism. It's the holidays, we are in the middle of a playoff run, why play spoil sport? Let people have their Christmas goose instead of trying to say "bah-humbug."

[B&G]

+2. I'm wondering about the ban as well. Its perfectly ok to float an idea or an opinion. It isn't ok to antagonize and disparage your fellow fan(s), at least in my view. The OP uses the (very familiar) discredited method of demonizing those who disagree with him. Very unpleasant and in some cases, simply obnoxious.

[Oldfan]

First off, I was against the Jason Taylor trade because of his age and what we gave up.

For me, that weighed more heavily than any other factor. You label my decision the result of a negative bias. But, a bias is something that throws the decision off its true course. I stuck with what my brain told me was a realistic appraisal. You were the one to allow a bias to throw your appraisal off course. Why did you do that? It's not as if either of us was going to alter the outcome.

My theory on the Homer Phenomenon is that fans confuse hopes and expectations. I could expect the Jason Taylor move to fail, but still hope that it somehow worked out for the best. Others don't seem to be able to do that.

Pessimism is easier in all cases because the ultimate goal in the NFL is Superbowl, and only 1 in 32 will get accomplish that in a given season. Every team has reasons for pessimism, and in the case of all but team, those pessimistic fans will be right, even if their reasoning is wrong.

Okay, I see what you mean. But I don't consider a move a failure as long as there is progress being made toward the goal.

You have said before that the team will never win a Superbowl under Snyder's ownership, correct? If so, then that is consistent pessimism.

Superbowls are unlikely but possible. This is my position: I want to replace the Patriots as the number one franchise. I can't see a Snyder team achieving that goal because there has been no evidence that he has that goal in mind. So, yes. As to that goal, you could label me a consistent pessimist. But, it would be unfair to label me that way across the board.

Homers have reason to be optimistic right now. Consistent homerism is not superior, but believing in the team so long as they are not mathematically eliminated, despite reasonable evidence they won't succeed, requires faith. That faith is the mark of a superior fan IMO.

You think of that fan as superior. I think of him as sorta stupid. You are confusing hopes with expectations. At 3-6, a fan can always hope that his team beats the odds. That's what all good fans should do. But to expect that his team will beat the odds is to deny reality.

Tempered expectations would have been a better thread title, but you said your intent was to counter rampant homerism. It's the holidays, we are in the middle of a playoff run, why play spoil sport? Let people have their Christmas goose instead of trying to say "bah-humbug."

I'm not really concerned with spoiling Christmas for the superior homers in our group. My message to them is: There is no Santa and you aren't superior.

[NLC1054]

I can't wait for the Oldfan thread after we win a Super Bowl where he complains about how in reality, we weren't good enough to win a Super Bowl and how it won't ever happen again under Dan Snyder.

[pimpumd]

I can't wait for the Oldfan thread after we win a Super Bowl where he complains about how in reality, we weren't good enough to win a Super Bowl and how it won't ever happen again under Dan Snyder.

Hey you homer! You are not superior to the "realistic" folks around here who can use their unbiased brains. Who do you think you are?

[Oldfan]

I can't wait for the Oldfan thread after we win a Super Bowl where he complains about how in reality, we weren't good enough to win a Super Bowl and how it won't ever happen again under Dan Snyder.

You are expanding your horizons. You have been making up dumb positions for me that you can ridicule. Now, you are projecting them into the future.

If you could master straight-up debate as you've mastered strawman creation, you'd be tough to handle.

[DogofWar1]

Superbowls are unlikely but possible. This is my position: I want to replace the Patriots as the number one franchise. I can't see a Snyder team achieving that goal because there has been no evidence that he has that goal in mind. So, yes. As to that goal, you could label me a consistent pessimist. But, it would be unfair to label me that way across the board.

I think Snyder definitely has that goal in mind, he just had no idea how to go about it, and made some poor decisions. Snyder is, and has been, a fan, the problem is he ran the team like a fantasy football squad and not a long term organization with very specific systems. If you're a fantasy football owner, it makes perfect sense to get the best guys at their positions and just build a team from them, but in the real world you have to take age, cap, scheme fit, etc. into account. Before Shanahan, Snyder might have known about the difference between a 4-3 and 3-4, but he probably couldn't tell you exactly how the personnel were different (might still not be able to). I think he's probably seen the light, and realized from that that he is woefully unskilled in the art of roster building, which is why he's leaving it to professionals now.

Of course, he also had to go get the right professionals. Shanahan, Allen, and some of his other coaches, I think, have the potential to be the right professionals for the job. They might not pull it off, but they have that potential.

I'm not really concerned with spoiling Christmas for the superior homers in our group. My message to them is: There is no Santa and you aren't superior.

Well now you're starting to sound like the Krampus.

[daveakl]

Superbowls are unlikely but possible. This is my position: I want to replace the Patriots as the number one franchise. I can't see a Snyder team achieving that goal because there has been no evidence that he has that goal in mind. So, yes. As to that goal, you could label me a consistent pessimist. But, it would be unfair to label me that way across the board.

Just so I am clear. You do not think that Snyder has a goal of being the number one franchise in football? (I am guessing you are talking about success and the patriots and not value like the cowboys)

[Chachi]

You are expanding your horizons. You have been making up dumb positions for me that you can ridicule. Now, you are projecting them into the future.

If you could master straight-up debate as you've mastered strawman creation, you'd be tough to handle.

At the risk of getting banned...

Seriously dude, shut it already. You are obviously a troll and have been allowed to get away with your b.s. for way too long. Why the mods haven't muzzled you by now remains a mystery. I guarantee that you could probably count at least two dozen insults, put downs or belittlements within your OP and commentary. And that's just this topic! You talk about this being "your thread"... EXCUSE ME - this is a GROUP discussion board not a totalitarian dictatorship where you get to control the conversation. Since we are voicing our opinions: my opinion is that you are a petty, bitter egomaniac. Get over yourself. If you have to get off on making yourself feel better about your "intellectual superiority" on a freaking football message board, then you need a life. I know you care more about the attention you are receiving rather than having an actual conversation. I've met people like you before. They are generally sad and lonely and compensate for their unhappiness by trying to bring people down to their level.

I picture old fan looking like the emperor from return of the Jedi LOL!

[Mahons21]

I've stayed out of this thread for the most part, because I'm well aware OF can defend himself, and probably do so better than any attempt I could make at defending him.can

But this last post Chachi, you've got to cool it buddy. Mods, my apologies if I'm over stepping my bounds, but this has reached a level of absurdity.

We get it buddy you don't like OF. So please do the entire board a favor and take your personal vendetta elsewhere.

OF has continuously brought interesting discussion to the board. It's no surprise that majority of the worth while posters on this site, enjoy his posts majority of the time. KDawg, DG, MartinC, SIP, and GHH to name a few (my apologies if I left out any of the other "heavy hitters")

[NLC1054]

You are expanding your horizons. You have been making up dumb positions for me that you can ridicule. Now, you are projecting them into the future.

If you could master straight-up debate as you've mastered strawman creation, you'd be tough to handle.

This isn't debate. There are no set rules or parameters, and it is damn near impossible to debate with someone who constantly changes the parameters of debate, and then says "it is not important how the person debates!" as an excuse to make up for the fact that every time he comes across an argument he can not defend, he moves the goal post.

These threads are designed to cause strife and arguments. There's literally no reason for this thread at this point and time. None. Zero. The only reason it exists is because someone posted something in another thread you disagreed with, it made you grumpy, and you decided to white knight for the poor negative posters who you felt were victimized in Jumbo's "Screw off, you quitters" thread. Which was really just you getting pissed at something thesubmittedone said that wasn't even directed at you specifically.

You are entitled to your opinions. Just don't get indignant went there's people who don't treat said opinions as "outside the box" and more like "the pessimistic rantings of a grumpy old man".

[Oldfan]

...Of course, he also had to go get the right professionals. Shanahan, Allen, and some of his other coaches, I think, have the potential to be the right professionals for the job. They might not pull it off, but they have that potential.

Just so I am clear. You do not think that Snyder has a goal of being the number one franchise in football? (I am guessing you are talking about success and the patriots and not value like the cowboys)

Very briefly:

1) *You don't hire two men with a decade of mediocrity on their resumes to take you to Number One;

2) Both by actions and in words, we know that the plan is to win-now and build at the same time; IMO, that's a sure-fire plan for mediocrity;

*(I am referring to Shanahan's record in Denver with full control as he has now (1999 - 2008)

[Chachi]

[QUOTE=Mahons21;9323886]I've stayed out of this thread for the most part, because I'm well aware OF can defend himself, and probably do so better than any attempt I could make at defending him.can

But this last post Chachi, you've got to cool it buddy. Mods, my apologies if I'm over stepping my bounds, but this has reached a level of absurdity.

We get it buddy you don't like OF. So please do the entire board a favor and take your personal vendetta elsewhere.

OF has continuously brought interesting discussion to the board. It's no surprise that majority of the worth while posters on this site, enjoy his posts majority of the time. KDawg, DG, MartinC, SIP, and GHH to name a few (my apologies if I left out any of the other "heavy hitters")[/QUOT

I agree that this has reached absurdity. I also agree that I probably put my toe over the line. That was kind of the point. it's not a personal vendetta at all - you misunderstand that part. Im illustrating a point that I'm tired of OF getting away with calling people stupid, unintelligent, homer...etc not to mention the thinly veiled insults that he casually throws around. Yet he gets away with it why? Because that's just OF? Or he contributes content that some find value in sometimes? That's not enough for me in my book. Either respect the rules of posting and commenting (despite who you are) or get out. Simple as that.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I am one of the more negative posters on this board, so I hope you'll take this as...well, constructive criticism...if you will. This is not a call out post by any means.

Problem is Oldfan, I don't think I've ever read a well thought out post of yours that was largely positive. Your a sharp guy, but your posts are well thought out negative posts on the whole.

Most of the time you're battling it out with other posters b/c you're taking a hardline stance on one of your posts. Often, in my opinion (for whatever that's worth), your position is flawed in spots but you don't ever back down. That's cool, but it shows your a bit of a hardhead.

Why be a fan of any sports team or franchise if you're going to piss and moan or point out flaws 99.9% of the time?

Learn to enjoy the positives. There are MANY with this 2012 Redskins team. I'm not going to state what I believe they are b/c that's not what this post is about.

You may be one of those folks who thrive on negativity. Keeps you busy....kinda like the old lady on the porch who's always complaining to the passerby about her creaky knees and old age. Hey, it gives her someone to talk to, right? No. We don't need that around here.

What we need is a more educated fanbase, not more negativity.

Smile brother It's good to be a Skins fan right now.

Remember, this is coming from a guy (me) who doesn't cut this team or franchise much slack. Ask the mods