Thoughts of a Negative Poster

[chipwhich]

It was Om's thread. But you said I was wrong. You shouldn't need the thread to tell me what I was wrong about.

Take a stab. I promise not to laugh... much.

Can you post the link or are you not comfortable with that

[Oldfan]

Oldfan, after 2009 who would have been a hire that demonstrated that Snyder's goal was to be the best team in the league? Whether you agree with the hire, isn't it feasible that Snyder believed he was getting a guy who might do that? After all, he hired the only available coach with 2+ rings. You can believe he did a poor job identifying the right man, but you can't really discern intent.

I don't keep tabs on the GM prospects or the hotshot young coaches. But, if none were available, he might have given short-term contracts to younger men who were not proven mediocre performers. If Snyder wasn't going to give Shanahan full control, then the two rings might have influenced him.

But, if you are looking for a racehorse with the potential to win stakes races, you look for a three-year old who shows promise. You don't expect a 5-year old with a mediocre racing record to suddenly blossom.

[DogofWar1]

And is still ultimately just a guess.
An opinion.
Which can be either right or wrong.
And as you like to say, can you show me exactly where Dan Snyder ever said he only wanted a big name to bring the Redskins up to mediocrity?

I can show you lots of quotes where he says he wants to win a Super Bowl, so we KNOW he wants to do that.
But is there any proof he only wanted a name so the Redskins could just break even?
Because it really doesn't make any sense to me. That's a lot of money to spend on such a lousy prospect and low expectation.
7 million a year to bring a name and mediocrity?
This makes sense?

~Bang

Don't forget that Snyder has spent money likes he wants to win (and/or like a drunk guy at a strip). I guarantee that if there wasn't a cap our payroll would be inflated like the Yankees.

Snyder wants to win badly. If he was purely in it to make a good show, he wouldn't have gone of that spending spree in the early 2000s. He wouldn't have shelled out obscene amounts of money for high profile free agents like Haynesworth, Archuleta, Sanders, etc. etc. WE ALL KNOW THE LIST! (*starts crying*) He would have gone the route of the Bucs, spending as little as possible on the roster.

Instead, he was so willing to spend money that we had to dish out 170+M just to get to some level of normalcy when the uncapped year happened.

He wouldn't also get so emotionally involved with the team. Remember in '08 when he was freaking out because we were 3-1 or something. Or just a couple weeks ago when he was saying how much he hated the Giants. Snyder is a fan and loves this team as much as any of us do. He's a business man, and you can see that, but he's a fan.

And while we sometimes disagree on decisions as fans, we all *should* not question each other's desire to see the team be the best (it happens sometimes but it shouldn't), and we should equally not question Snyder's desire to see the team be the best.

Again, the problem is figuring out the right people to get you there, he has had trouble with that part in the past.

[Oldfan]

Can you post the link or are you not comfortable with that

I don't want to waste my time.

That argument in that thread was not about whether Norv was a good coach. My argument was that, at that particular time, Norv was the best fit for the Chargers because they wanted continuity with the offensive scheme that Norv created in San Diego in LT's rookie year. Norv had to be given the HC position in order to take him away from the Niners. Norv was basically an OC with a HC title.

The Chargers had to replace seven coaches. Marty basically fire himself and two other coaches got HC positions. Norv did what they expected of him. The offense flourished until A.J. Smith's luck ran out. Injuries out-paced the new talent.

---------- Post added December-14th-2012 at 12:14 AM ----------

Oh yes he can. He can logically deduce what is in someone's head.
Based on careful consideration, Snyder decided to spend 35 million bucks on a name, and mediocrity.

7 mil a year is chump change DEs make 10 mil average.

[DogofWar1]

7 mil a year is chump change DEs make 10 mil average.

For coaches that's a lot though. Shanahan is tied for 2nd highest paid coach in the NFL, behind Belichick, who gets 7.5M.

http://www.therichest.org/sports/hig...d-nfl-coaches/

[Oldfan]

...And while we sometimes disagree on decisions as fans, we all *should* not question each other's desire to see the team be the best (it happens sometimes but it shouldn't), and we should equally not question Snyder's desire to see the team be the best..

Your analogy doesn't work. We fans don't have the profit motive to seduce us.

The way I look at it. I can suspect being number one isn't Dan's goal or I can suspect he's a dimwit -- because the Shanahan and Allen hires don't make sense in that context. They both had a decade to show the kind of potential needed to do that job and couldn't cut it.

[NLC1054]

I don't keep tabs on the GM prospects or the hotshot young coaches. But, if none were available, he might have given short-term contracts to younger men who were not proven mediocre performers. If Snyder wasn't going to give Shanahan full control, then the two rings might have influenced him.

So basically, you have no idea who could've done a better job that Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen, you just know that they were terrible choices because of some arbitrary goal you've set of having every aspect of the Redskins be like the Belichick-led Patriots.

And what you described pretty much explains Jim Zorn, and we saw what happened there.

[Oldfan]

So basically, you have no idea who could've done a better job that Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen..

That's exactly right and there's no reason that I need to know.

you just know that they were terrible choices

Right again.

because of some arbitrary goal you've set of having every aspect of the Redskins be like the Belichick-led Patriots.

Another strawman.

And what you described pretty much explains Jim Zorn, and we saw what happened there.

i see no connection at all to Jim Zorn.

[brandymac27]

Oldfan, what improvements do you feel Mike has made this year? Do you feel like some of the mediocrity that you feel about his career in general will eventually be overshadowed in the long run by these improvements?

[Mad Mike]

I don't keep tabs on the GM prospects or the hotshot young coaches. But, if none were available, he might have given short-term contracts to younger men who were not proven mediocre performers.

That would have been THE MOST MORONIC move possible. We tried the up-and-comer route. That's how we got Spurrier and Zorn. What this team needed was a proven, mature, experienced leader with the clout to bring in good assistants and free agents, and get the zoo that this team had become under control.

But, if you are looking for a racehorse with the potential to win stakes races, you look for a three-year old who shows promise. You don't expect a 5-year old with a mediocre racing record to suddenly blossom.

Aside from your idiotic assessment of Shannahan as a "proven mediocre performer" (a statement virtually EVERY head coach in the NFL would laugh you out of the room for) , your comparison of a football coach to a racehorse is mind numbingly stupid. Race horses DO NOT use intelligence, wisdom, and leadership to win races, they run, something not required of head coaches in the NFL.

Head coaches DO "blossom" with age. Tom Coughlin had FAR less success in Jacksonville than Shanahan in Denver before moving to a new team and winning two Superbowls. And while outsiders (including myself) panned Bill Belichick for his time with the browns (watch a football life to see what real respected football minds say about that) He went to New England and took a fast track to the hall of fame.

But I'm done here. You exist in your own alternate universe and it is painfully clear you have no intention of leaving your comfortable fantasy world.

[JCSMCPCCrskins]

Your analogy doesn't work. We fans don't have the profit motive to seduce us.

The way I look at it. I can suspect being number one isn't Dan's goal or I can suspect he's a dimwit -- because the Shanahan and Allen hires don't make sense in that context. They both had a decade to show the kind of potential needed to do that job and couldn't cut it.

If you're willing to suspect he could just be a dimwit than you have to admit the possibility he could want to win a superbowl more than anything, but isnt smart enough to pick the right staff. No?

[NLC1054]

i see no connection at all to Jim Zorn.

But, if none were available, he might have given short-term contracts to younger men who were not proven mediocre performers.

That's Jim Zorn.

[Oldfan]

Oldfan, what improvements do you feel Mike has made this year? Do you feel like some of the mediocrity that you feel about his career in general will eventually be overshadowed in the long run by these improvements?

I'd need the time to write about three pages to cover that topic. Briefly, RG3 is the best QB who ever played the game, IMO. But, there are lots of question marks: how long will he stay healthy? How much support will he need? Right now, Shanahan is using Robert's wheels to mask O-line weaknesses. How long will that last?

As great as he is, we paid a high price for RG3. The more we use his wheels, the more risk we take of injury.

I don't think RG3 will be enough to break us free of the mediocre level. I think Shanahan will need big drafts over the next couple of years to get us there. He will need to do better than he has in past years.

[DogofWar1]

Your analogy doesn't work. We fans don't have the profit motive to seduce us.

Every owner in the NFL has a profit motive. That doesn't automatically mean they aren't fans, or that they don't care about making their team #1.

Snyder gets emotional about this team. He gets giddy when they win and frustrated when they lose. He shows more emotion than most other owners. Sure, he's a business guy, and quite possibly a greedy business guy, but unless he's also a sociopath faking emotions, he's also a fan.

And I'm not going to question a fan's desire to see his team be number 1.

If you think he's a dimwit, that's fine, that's an opinion, and prior to 2010 I'd probably have agreed with you. He's made some boneheaded moves. But to accuse a fan of not wanting to see his team be #1, I think the burden of proof lies on you to prove that. And him simply having a profit motive is circumstantial evidence, not hard proof.

[NLC1054]

Briefly, RG3 is the best QB who ever played the game, IMO.

The irony of a thread calling for more perspective and objectivity when the OP makes a comment like this, however well Robert may be playing, should not be lost on anyone...