Thoughts of a Negative Poster

[Idaho fan]

I'm obviously not changing your mind, so I feel as though my time and energy are wasted.

Well now you are just being negative.

[bedlamVR]

I'll give you an example that might help or might not but here goes.....

Take the statement below (which is more then an example just for the sake, its really how I feel)

Even in the midst of my utter joy over our winning streak my football mind can't help but think about where this team could be without some imo rather obvious mistakes by the front.

^^But the above opinion by many will be seen as negative and will cause a slew of knee jerk responses on spurious grounds. A typical response would be to defend the FO or bring up rationales for the mistakes i.e. salary cap etc. But the actual issues would be pushed aside or even further rationalized.

For example:
I believe that having Tyler Polumbus at RT and Jordan Black as the primary back-up cost us at a minimum the Bengals game. Both of those personnel decision imo were avoidable. A player we cut ranks ahead of Polumbus according to PFF OT rankings, which naturally puts him far ahead of Jordan Black.

Or even further back there was the Jammal Brown mistake (re-signin) which was the precursor mistake that led to Tyler Polumbus. Or the OJ Atogwe mistake which led to Madieu Williams mistake.

Eveb though I'm over joyed at the 4 game winning streak I can see a team that could be better if it weren't for some front offices moves. But, holding these opinions doesn't take away from my love of the team.

Does that help?

I am a homer but I cannot argue with you on the Tyler Polumbus issue - but he was not plan A . Brown was plan A... (all that time ago) and Polumbus is playing better now than he was earlier in the season . I am not sure about who you are talking about with the player we cut who is playing better - because Willie Smith is buried on the depth chart on the Raiders (raiders man) or Lockclear in NY - who is playing exceptionally - but it is a different scheme in NY which might be helping - but he was horrible last season here - it was because he played so badly that Polumbus is on the roster at all

The team should never have relied on Brown coming back (that's true but there was not much option) - Bell and Winston were the big talents in FA and both have been HUGE disappointments with their new teams - they might have worked out here - but signs are not optimistic - even when we resigned Brown - there were not a massive amount of options in the limited free agency - we could have addressed the position in the draft - and we had options - but the draft is a crap shoot and i have been happy with what we got this season - 2010 is looking a little sloppy right now - but we are where we are . RT needs massive help - and I am not sure to be honest how much the offensive line needs more time and how much it needs more personnel .

Just to bring up your other point I think when M Williams was not a mistake but he was a signing I thought would not even make it through the training camp - We didn't have a massive list of options here - especially in their price bracket - and then you consider Williams was again not plan A - they were hoping Gomes could be at least a positive step forward and could be a primary back up - but that did not happen - then you hoped Jackson would have been the guy, the startert - and that did not happen - and when you are down to your third option - your banker - then things are going to be bad - and while you want quality depth - just how deep does that depth have to be . That said - there is very little to be optimistic about the secondary - Maybe we could have something in Minnifield and Bernstein but both of those are on IR -

thing is I can even with my B&G glasses on see that these players are horrible - Williams is very slow - and Polumbus seems just generally over matched - but the risk is you look too closely at the weak links - focus on what isn't then you miss what it is good - for goodness sake you have a thread on the first page saying we should trade Alfred Morris away ....

I am not trying to rationalize why we have such poor players - but what I am saying it taking a step back - what other options where there (and this is a genuine question) and would we be any better off or just moaning about the same positions but different names ..

[Oldfan]

Part of being a fan is being a bit of a homer. That's the fun of it. How do you enjoy the wins when you are constantly being so negative. No, things haven't always been done right, but why are you now touting being negative now?

OF, all I ever see you posting about is how you are right. What do you want from those of us that try to be positive and keep a positive outlook? Would you like us all to acknowledge you were right?

I'm also very curious how you are enjoying this season.

This thread wasn't meant for you.

I'm not at all interested in your opinion of me. And I'm not interested in explaining to you how one can be realistic and enjoy the season.

This thread is meant to encourage posters who are fair-minded and realistic to write their opinions even when unpopular with this group.

[skinpride1]

[QUOTE=Oldfan;9321915]Your is the 10th different hidden motive posters have assigned to what I wrote. Who do people do that? Do you have hidden motives when you start a thread?

Of course I left out facts. I do that when I'm trying to be concise for an audience with a short attention span.[/QUOT

So your admitting that you are just wanting to screw with people with half the facts...interesting..... but you are correct in the gibbs II venture that a lot of fans wanted to get this and that in Big name FA's... but things have changed since then.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 07:31 PM ----------

Oh i see you are trying to be negative and hopes that people will not flip out......good luck there....

[darrelgreenie]

I am a homer but I cannot argue with you on the Tyler Polumbus issue - but he was not plan A . Brown was plan A... (all that time ago) and Polumbus is playing better now than he was earlier in the season . I am not sure about who you are talking about with the player we cut who is playing better - because Willie Smith is buried on the depth chart on the Raiders (raiders man)

The team should never have relied on Brown coming back (that's true but there was not much option) - Bell and Winston were the big talents in FA and both have been HUGE disappointments with their new teams - they might have worked out here - but signs are not optimistic -

Just addressing a couple of quick incongrunencies between your opinions and the available metrics:
Willie Smith started 7 games this season and played in 9 games and is rated higher then Tyler Polumbus by PFF:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-efficiency/2/

Eric Winston-PFF:

Chiefs right tackle Eric Winston pairs with Branden Albert to form what could be the best set of tackles in the NFL. Winston has been the better run blocker of the pair, and has allowed just 25 combined pressures in 2012. The matchup clearly favors Winston and his consistent track record (zero negatively graded performances this season), but that is why they play the games.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...rowns-week-14/

You should have left it at re-signing Brown was a mistake.

Just to bring up your other point I think when M Williams was not a mistake but he was a signing I thought would not even make it through the training camp - We didn't have a massive list of options here - especially in their price bracket - and then you consider Williams was again not plan A -

I come from a results focused business (like football) where outcomes are judged on results not intentions. M. Williams along with the other moves a S lead us to our current state of affairs at the position. There is no way around it.

thing is I can even with my B&G glasses on see that these players are horrible - Williams is very slow - and Polumbus seems just generally over matched - but the risk is you look too closely at the weak links - focus on what isn't then you miss what it is good -

Fiction. Being objective in no way means I miss what is good. I pretty much state this in my previous post.
Is this an example of me missing what is good: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthre...=1#post9321971

I am not trying to rationalize why we have such poor players

That may not be your intent but its exactly what you're doing.

- but what I am saying it taking a step back - what other options where there (and this is a genuine question) and would we be any better off or just moaning about the same positions but different names

There were other options and all we would do is speculate back and forth about their level of benefit. Give me a scouting deptartment and a staff of player personnel people and I can more accurately answer your questions about what other options there were. But lets not pretend that there aren't better options when the players at RT and S are near league worst.

[Alaskins]

Oldfan, I'm going to stray from the rest of the crowd and say:

While I don't agree with everything that you post. You bring a unique perspective to ES that I respect and will continue to read. In any society, it take all types, and your posts are very well thought out... even the ones that I disagree with.

[Oldfan]

If I may interlude for a moment ..... Of my good man, indulge me if you will. Your a man of the World, and greatly experienced with it through the passing years. (Right amount of diplomacy? ). Where would you bracket moi through getting to know me via my musings on here? Purely out of interest to me from someone I greatly respect. And it takes a heck of a lot to offend myself, so your usual forthright opinion would be greatly welcomed.

*Curious GHH.

Hail.

Your posts are rarely boring and always intelligent. That's my number one compliment for an Internet poster.

We seem to disagree as often as we agree, but that doesn't matter to me and I know it doesn't to you. Consequently, I don't worry about the wording of my posts when we disagree. I do have a habit of not qualifying every opinion with "I think" or "IMO," which makes me sound more arrogant than I really am. But, I don't worry about that when we exchange opinions.

I think of you as a friend.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 07:59 PM ----------

Oldfan, I'm going to stray from the rest of the crowd and say:

While I don't agree with everything that you post. You bring a unique perspective to ES that I respect and will continue to read. In any society, it take all types, and your posts are very well thought out... even the ones that I disagree with.

Much appreciated, Sir.

[JMUSkins]

I don't care that they support every management decision. It bothers me that have the numbers on their side and they use them to try to suppress opinions they don't want to hear.


In order to change my mind, you would first have to understand what my argument is and then supply a persuasive counter-argument. Did you read anything that could be interpreted as this being about my personal opinions being suppressed?

Apparently nobody understands you. Must be lonely... and I'd say that the title of your thread is very telling.

---------- Post added December-12th-2012 at 08:06 PM ----------

Well now you are just being negative.

Haha must be contagious!

[Oldfan]

Apparently nobody understands you. Must be lonely... and I'd say that the title of your thread is very telling.

You aren't reading carefully. There are people here agreeing with me, a minority group, to be sure. But I didn't expect the homer majority to agree with a thread that skewers them.

[JMUSkins]

You aren't reading carefully. There are people here agreeing with me, a minority group, to be sure. But I didn't expect the homer majority to agree with a thread that skewers them.

So... am I a homer in your eyes? I just think some people try to see the bright side of things and don't have a problem with that. Why let it bother you so much b/c others have a different opinion?

[Oldfan]

So... am I a homer in your eyes? I just think some people try to see the bright side of things and don't have a problem with that. Why let it bother you so much b/c others have a different opinion?

I don't know your posting history. From this exchange, my only opinion of you is that you are argumentative and not a serious threat in debate.

Why am I bothered? Your question is answered by the OP.

Anything else?

[JMUSkins]

I don't know your posting history. From this exchange, my only opinion of you is that you are argumentative and not a serious threat in debate.

Why am I bothered? Your question is answered by the OP.

Anything else?

I'm just telling you to lighten up a little, that's all. Sorry my 'debate' skills don't stand up to your obvious level of mastery.

[Oldfan]

I'm just telling you to lighten up a little, that's all. Sorry my 'debate' skills don't stand up to your obvious level of mastery.

Why would anyone take advice from a smartass?

[KDawg]

Apparently nobody understands you. Must be lonely... and I'd say that the title of your thread is very telling

I guess I'm nobody then, because I agree with him

[JMUSkins]

I guess I'm nobody then, because I agree with him

Figuratively speaking, of course.