WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[frostyj]

A little devils advocate, if we didn't have guns we would have more of this.

Children stabbed in attack at Chinese school
..At least 22 children and one adult have been injured in a knife attack outside a primary school in central China, police say.
An officer said the attack, in the village of Chengping in Henan province, happened shortly before 8am on Friday, as students were arriving for classes.
The attacker, believed to be 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is in police custody, said officials.
A county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards. Two students have since been transferred to "better-equipped" hospitals outside the county.
China has witnessed a spate of school stabbings in recent years, leading to more security guards being deployed across the vast country.
In March 2010, eight children were murdered in Nanping, Fujian province, by 41-year-old knifeman Zheng Minsheng. The attacker was executed a month later, hours before 33-year-old Chen Kangbing injured 16 students and a teacher at Hongfu Primary School in Leizhou, Guangdong.
In April 29 2010, 28 school children - mostly four-year-olds - were stabbed alongside two teachers and a security guard in Taixing, Jiangsu. On April 30, Wang Yonglai committed suicide after using a hammer to attack preschool children in Weifang, Shandong.
Further attacks in the months and years following have left 11 children and four adults dead, and several more injured.
...

But to stick with the topic, our guns laws are actually pretty good, need a way to weed out the mentaly unstable. They need to be enforced and there needs to be stiffer penalties for those who break them. However even if everything was perfect, someone would find away around it. This kid 20, murdered him mother and stole her guns. How do you prevent that? If you have children you can't own a gun?? Yea, over the top. I just can't stand knee jerk reactions, why close the barn doors after the horses have gotten out??
I think all kids should go thru a gun safety class in school. I know a lot of schools do this in the south, it won't stop the crazies, but it would still be very helpfull.

[County1883]

our guns laws are actually pretty good....I just can't stand knee jerk reactions, why close the barn doors after the horses have gotten out??....
I think all kids should go thru a gun safety class in school.

Question to everyone apart from the this poster.

Is this the common feeling throughout America?

I cannot believe that someone with even half-a-brain cell would post something so idiotic. "I cant stand knee jerk reactions"....What??????????? I cant believe you posted this comment especially after ANOTHER heartbreaking atrocity. Unbelievable.

"all kids though gun safety class"....i feel really sorry for your next generation guys. Kids should be kids and never even come across a gun in there life, never mind to be taught about gun safety....WOW

[twa]

: One thing that really scares me here "over the pond" is that some people on here and in America have been saying that the teachers need to be armed. WHAT?!?!? Where i come from mate, teachers teach. The army are armed....just WOW!

'need to be' is overstating it, it is not like school is as dangerous as crossing the street there

not a bad idea to have the military become teachers,where I come from we are capable of multi=tasking

[Burgold]

Question to everyone apart from the this poster.

Is this the common feeling throughout America?

There really is an odd divide in America when it comes to firearms. You have quite a few people who believe that any attempt to restrict access to guns in any respect is immoral, unconstitutional and dangerous. They tie the right to bare arms as the most important aspect of citizenship. I think it's tied into the Old West romance where the idea was the country was so big and so spread out that there couldn't be a system of law to protect the people and therefore, in order to protect your home you had to have a gun or a rifle from bandits, etc. Thus, the concept of a militia or the "Cowboy" was important.

To me, as far as the Second Ammendment goes that's why the words "well regulated militia" are so important. We have the right to bare arms to protect the community so we can come together as a group to fend off an invading enemy or bandits or bears or whatnot. It's not an individual right, but a collective one that needed to be well regulated. There is even the notion, if you press some of these people, that a gun is necessary in case the government gets too corrupt and we have to take it back.

The flip side are the people who think that guns are very dangerous tools and make killing way too easy and impersonal and their purchase and possession should be made as difficult as possible. I fall into the latter group.

Now, I wil say though I disagree with making gun safety a part of the 2nd grade curriculum that I do think that if an adult should decide to purchase a gun they should be required to take and pay for a safety course and that they should be recertified after various periods of time. There are too many accidents in addition to these intentional tragedies.

I also think that it's pretty obvious that most of these mass killings would not happen if we enforced the gun laws on the books and made it tougher for people to acquire them. Should there be a screening process that looks at psychological and even physiolgical/neurological health before purchase... I would love one. Gun advocates would go ballistic.

[twa]

Bur the right to show off my biceps is not that important

most people support reasonable restrictions,some of ya'll are clearly not reasonable

[AsburySkinsFan]

Just my personal opinion, but there's a discernible difference between escapism in a film and sensationalist reporting on real life events.

Hail.

For you and I, maybe. But, let's not pretend that everyone is working on the same level of discernment.

[Burgold]

Bur the right to show off my biceps is not that important

most people support reasonable restrictions,some of ya'll are clearly not reasonable

If we're being reasonable the definition of reasonable has not been agreed on since the Second Ammendment was passed. Look at the stances of the NRA... they are the mainstream advocate for gun rights in the U.S. They oppose any and every restriction. They would be for using guns as teething rings for newborns and demand very loose triggers.

[Harwich Hog]

I don't like the argument that if a person really wants to get a gun and murder people they could in every country. It's true but it's not valid.

Fact of the matter is if guns aren't so engrained in your culture a person with a grudge, mental illness, anger management issues - or any reason - it, likely, won't even cross that individual's mind to do such a thing. There will be instances where they do, but drastically less frequently.

[Burgold]

I don't like the argument that if a person really wants to get a gun and murder people they could in every country. It's true but it's not valid.

Fact of the matter is if guns aren't so engrained in your culture a person with a grudge, mental illness, anger management issues - or any reason - it, likely, won't even cross that individual's mind to do such a thing. There will be instances where they do, but drastically less frequently.

Yeah, when you consider that Americans this year killed more Americans in gun violence than the number that was lost in ten years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq combined there is something horribly wrong. There needs to be at the minimum an honest debate. For the last ten years, we haven't had one. The gun lobby has been too strong and the anti-gun people too intimidated. They even apologize when asking for crumbs. Meanwhile, the gun rights people have gotten bolder and you can see the result in the trends.

[KingGibbs]

Question to everyone apart from the this poster.

Is this the common feeling throughout America?

I cannot believe that someone with even half-a-brain cell would post something so idiotic. "I cant stand knee jerk reactions"....What??????????? I cant believe you posted this comment especially after ANOTHER heartbreaking atrocity. Unbelievable.

"all kids though gun safety class"....i feel really sorry for your next generation guys. Kids should be kids and never even come across a gun in there life, never mind to be taught about gun safety....WOW

You are correct. Obviously, anybody that calls the reaction being seen/heard across America in regards to TWENTY innocent children being MURDERED due to yet another gun incident a "knne jerk reaction" is a complete ****ing moron.

Obviously this latest gun incident has divided the country and it's only going to get more heated.

Gun toters-If they didn't have a gun they would find other ways to kill.

My response-They have those weapons at their disposal anyway. So why do they choose guns? Because it's easier to kill, harder for someone to defend themselves against, you can kill in numbers, easy to conceal, etc, etc, etc.

[No_Pressure]

Out of pure curiosity No_Pressure man from someone that's not so much as held a handgun outside of American friends, let alone ever owned one; why do you feel the need to keep as much as 8 different firearms?

Hail.

There is no need but I own the following:

1. 1891/30 Mosin-Nagant
2. Mauser 98K
3. Springfield 1903A1
4. Enfield No.4 Mk.1
5. M-1 Garand
6. 12 GA Shotgun
7. Smith and Wesson 686 .357 Magnum
8. Marlin repeating rifle

The first 5 items on that list are part of my WW2 collection. I majored in history at college and I'm into collecting these things, I just don't have the money lying around to expand it past the basic infantry rifles at this point.

To answer the questions, there is no need for this many guns. I have no need for them, and whether or not I feel there could at some point be a future need for them? Probably not, and I sure as hell hope I'll never need to have them for anything. The ones which are non historic (repeater, shotgun, pistol) are all weapons which I got later on and which interested me for a number or reasons. I enjoy target shooting as a hobby as well as skeet shooting. I don't hunt and I don't consider all the weapons I have as my main tools of self/home defense. I own them in the same sense most people would own a classic american muscle car that is only good at driving in a straight line and looking cool, and gets about 6 miles per gallon. There is no practice use or need for the thing, but they still take loving care of the thing and a few times per year they take it out of the garage just to drive it around for amusement.

Why have them then? Because I like owning a piece of my greatest historical interest and target shooting WW2 arms allows one to have a small glimpse into a time we're quickly forgetting.

[tshile]

The inability of people on both sides of the conversation to be genuine in the way they discuss it is absolutely disgusting.

People wonder why things are so jacked up in this country. Look in the mirror. Your share in the blame is a little bigger than you think.

[autoidiodyssey]

As I have been thinking about this debate over the last couple days I have begun to wonder, what is it about gun violence that causes such a vehement response? We have seen it throughout this thread. The calls for immediate action, for outright total bans, talk that the level of gun violence in this country is a national embarrassment.

Meanwhile, according to this site, alcohol is responsible for 85,000 deaths per year. Compared around 32,000 gun related deaths. Data from various sites shows that drunk driving and gun related murders account for close to the same number of deaths every year (around 10,000 and dropping for each). The first site linked above claims that 1700 college students die every year as a result of alcohol related injuries, 4.65 a day!

Yet there are no calls for increased alcohol control. Or any controls at all other than a drinking age. Can you imagine what the response would be if a politician stood up and said: "In an effort to reduce the number of drunk driving deaths I propose background checks for all alcohol purchases, and anyone with a history of DUI will be prohibited from purchasing alcohol"? That is what is in place for guns, as it should be, and it is not considered to be a strict enough control. Aside from the deaths if you factor in all of the issues surrounding alcoholism with mental, physical, and sexual abuse an argument could be made that alcohol is a more destructive force in this country than guns are. But there is no outrage, no calls for change.

I'm guessing that most of the people, here and on other outlets, who are the most outraged and want the harshest changes are not gun owners. Everything up to and including an outright ban would have no effect on their lives. They don't own one and never wanted to, so no longer being able to own one does not matter. But they probably drink.

Let's try a little experiment and take one of the suggestions in this thread and replace guns with the more deadly alcohol and see how it sounds. I'm using this quote because it was the most recent one I saw. I'm not trying to pick on anybody.

Here is the original quote:

They need to do something to control the guns. Have every registered owner take a test every 6 months that tests your mental state or something. And have it be very expensive to take, and if you dont take the test, your guns are seized. Raise the price of the guns, and the price of bullets. Have the laws for carrying a gun without a license a lot more severe.

Dont take away or ban the guns ( i wouldnt be against it though) but just do what i said. I think its the perfect thing to do

Now with the switch:

They need to do something to control [alcohol]. Have every [drinker] take a test every 6 months that tests your mental state or something. And have it be very expensive to take, and if you dont take the test, your [alcohol/ability to legaly drink is] seized. Raise the price of [beer and wine], and the price [whiskey and vodka]. Have the laws for [drinking and driving] a lot more severe.

Dont take away or ban [alcohol] ( i wouldnt be against it though) but just do what i said. I think its the perfect thing to do

So drinkers, does that sound reasonable? Try that experiment with some of the calls for change you are hearing. Having it apply to something you enjoy doing may change your perspective a little.

**In the interest of full disclosure, I don't drink but I do own guns. As a non-drinker any laws curtailing ones ability to get drunk and kill themselves or others would have no direct effect on me. I believe that if people enjoy drinking and can do so responsibly they should be allowed to with as few restrictions as is reasonable. I hope for the same consideration from people who have no interest in owning guns.

[tshile]

So drinkers, does that sound reasonable? Try that experiment with some of the calls for change you are hearing. Having it apply to something you enjoy doing may change your perspective a little.

ding ding ding. winner.

the same applies to almost every political issue. taxes? as long as they're not raised on me. government regulating something? as long as it's not something i enjoy. stop giving out handouts? as long as it's not a hand out i use.

repeat ad infinitum

[Sticksboi05]

As I have been thinking about this debate over the last couple days I have begun to wonder, what is it about gun violence that causes such a vehement response? We have seen it throughout this thread. The calls for immediate action, for outright total bans, talk that the level of gun violence in this country is a national embarrassment.

Meanwhile, according to this site, alcohol is responsible for 85,000 deaths per year. Compared around 32,000 gun related deaths. Data from various sites shows that drunk driving and gun related murders account for close to the same number of deaths every year (around 10,000 and dropping for each). The first site linked above claims that 1700 college students die every year as a result of alcohol related injuries, 4.65 a day!

Yet there are no calls for increased alcohol control.

Are you kidding me, people want stricter DUI laws by the day.