WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[Sticksboi05]

so it is guilt by association or perhaps fear?

they are also used to prevent deaths and preserve lives

In the moderately specific situations being discussed here that is much more rare than them being used to kill.

[twa]

How are guns used to prevent deaths? Can you please explain what you mean there? I'm not being confrontational I am just would like you to elaborate.

If you eliminate guns(which is not really feasible) the threat simply shifts to another tool ,and police are rarely there when the need is greatest
There are those that wish to kill,harm or control thru whatever means possible,you mention rape which is a good example in which a armed ,smaller, weaker person can prevent harm to themselves.
almost every one of these mass shootings have targeted the unarmed by those that prey on or take advantage of perceived vulnerability.

I admire a tool that enables those weaker than I, just as I admire other training that enables them not to be victims....mainly because I know how uncivilized humans can be.

in the same manner fences and locks prevent crime,a armed populace limits killing.....perhaps one day humans will evolve past the need,but we clearly are not there yet

---------- Post added December-16th-2012 at 09:50 PM ----------

In the moderately specific situations being discussed here that is much more rare than them being used to kill.

Because we have created killing fields for the wolves,and the only reason more don't die are armed people arriving...at which point the craven usually kill themselves

[Sticksboi05]

If you eliminate guns(which is not really feasible) the threat simply shifts to another tool ,and police are rarely there when the need is greatest
There are those that wish to kill,harm or control thru whatever means possible,you mention rape which is a good example in which a armed ,smaller, weaker person can prevent harm to themselves.
almost every one of these mass shootings have targeted the unarmed by those that prey on or take advantage of perceived vulnerability.

I admire a tool that enables those weaker than I, just as I admire other training that enables them not to be victims....mainly because I know how uncivilized humans can be.

in the same manner fences and locks prevent crime,a armed populace limits killing.....perhaps one day humans will evolve past the need,but we clearly are not there yet

---------- Post added December-16th-2012 at 09:50 PM ----------



Because we have created killing fields for the wolves,and the only reason more don't die are armed people arriving...at which point the craven usually kill themselves

Missing the point. Law enforcement officers who should carry weapons are not the target of these debates. I think anyway for 99% of people.

[codeorama]

[QUOTE=twa;9333463]If you eliminate guns(which is not really feasible) the threat simply shifts to another tool ,and police are rarely there when the need is greatest
There are those that wish to kill,harm or control thru whatever means possible,you mention rape which is a good example in which a armed ,smaller, weaker person can prevent harm to themselves.
almost every one of these mass shootings have targeted the unarmed by those that prey on or take advantage of perceived vulnerability.

I admire a tool that enables those weaker than I, just as I admire other training that enables them not to be victims....mainly because I know how uncivilized humans can be.

in the same manner fences and locks prevent crime,a armed populace limits killing.....perhaps one day humans will evolve past the need,but we clearly are not there yet[COLOR="Gold"]


Great post. Couldn't have said it better.

[abdcskins]

If you eliminate guns(which is not really feasible) the threat simply shifts to another tool ,and police are rarely there when the need is greatest
There are those that wish to kill,harm or control thru whatever means possible,you mention rape which is a good example in which a armed ,smaller, weaker person can prevent harm to themselves.
almost every one of these mass shootings have targeted the unarmed by those that prey on or take advantage of perceived vulnerability.

I admire a tool that enables those weaker than I, just as I admire other training that enables them not to be victims....mainly because I know how uncivilized humans can be.

in the same manner fences and locks prevent crime,a armed populace limits killing.....perhaps one day humans will evolve past the need,but we clearly are not there yet

I hear all that. However the idea of, "an armed populace" just seems a little too much to me. People having guns to prevent people from killing seems counterintuitive. It's almost like a paradox....guns that prevent killing. Just the sound of that phrase is illogical. Plus then you have to consider all the accidents that happen. People showing off their guns and blowing their friend or child's head off. People mistaking family members in the middle of the night for intruders and shooting them. I see these stories all the time. We live in a culture of fear. No one is going to come into your house tonight and kill you I promise.

Plus Sticksboi just basically summarized what I mean. When speaking about civilians, guns are typically used to kill, not to prevent killing.

[twa]

Missing the point. Law enforcement officers who should carry weapons are not the target of these debates. I think anyway for 99% of people.

You are missing the point, law enforcement are not the targets for good reason....the lambs are

[Bang]

Actually, i think the point is that the only way the gun threatens AND protects anyone is it's only function, which is killing.

~Bang

[abdcskins]

Actually, i think the point is that the only way the gun threatens AND protects anyone is it's only function, which is killing.

~Bang

Another good point and what I mean. Guns kill, period. Their purpose is to cause damage. This is not something that should be celebrated or admired.

[twa]

I hear all that. However the idea of, "an armed populace" just seems a little too much to me. People having guns to prevent people from killing seems counterintuitive. It's almost like a paradox....guns that prevent killing. Just the sound of that phrase is illogical. Plus then you have to consider all the accidents that happen. People showing off their guns and blowing their friend or child's head off. People mistaking family members in the middle of the night for intruders and shooting them. I see these stories all the time. We live in a culture of fear. No one is going to come into your house tonight and kill you I promise.

Plus Sticksboi just basically summarized what I mean. When speaking about civilians, guns are typically used to kill, not to prevent killing.

I can promise you someone will come into a house and kill tonight.....I don't live in fear,nor do I rely on guns (though I certainly can)

Some of you must live rather sheltered lives

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

Sadly, the solutions that do exist to help this country move forward in the face of such issues will only be the cause for more debates. It's understandable that everyone has a passion for the rights that are given here in the United States but something has to be done. The culture in this country needs to go into a different direction, something is terribly wrong when the first thing that comes to mind involves a heated debate in the midst of such a horrific situation. The only thing that I can think about is how those families must feel right now at this very moment and the last thing on my mind involves anything containing malice towards anybody. Society is breaking down in so many ways and we all need to reevaluate ourselves in such a way where we can find peaceful solutions to crucial problems. As a country and as a community there has to be a better way to prevent such atrocities without stumbling over our own selves first.

[twa]

Another good point and what I mean. Guns kill, period. Their purpose is to cause damage. This is not something that should be celebrated or admired.

Some people need killing at times,usually when a cop is not there

[abdcskins]

I can promise you someone will come into a house and kill tonight.....I don't live in fear,nor do I rely on guns (though I certainly can)

Some of you must live rather sheltered lives

Okay yes I can agree with that as well. You just highlighted on sentence in my entire post though, which I added more as an afterthought and tongue in cheek. Disregard it. Everything else I said I stand by.

Some people need killing at times,usually when a cop is not there

But how often does that happen? Also, don't you think that would just escalate the situation? If someone comes at me with a gun wanting my wallet I'm going to give it to them. Not pull out a gun. That is going to lead to bloodshed. I'd rather have my life.

Seems like some people love violence.

[Prosperity]

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

"I am Adam Lanza's mother"

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

[Jumbo]

One of the "talking points" of any side in the matter that I actually appreciated being reminded of---given all the "armed responsible citizens can be a deterrent or "limiter" to these events" type of talk---is how there are outstandingly few examples, out of reams and reams of violent incidents, where an "armed citizen" even apparently provided any deterrent or limited any damage.

So in a smarter world we could at least bury that piece of blather.

---------- Post added December-16th-2012 at 09:13 PM ----------

BTW, honestly, I would vote to sterilize everyone who thought (or at least shared the thought) that "people would just do the same with knives as they do with guns." I am not going to go into all the actual psychological reasons why it's absurd to make that a generalized claim for such killings (it <the attempts > would be so with a small minority but not even close to most of these events, before we even get to the ridiculousness of comparing amount of damage done).

Oh, remember I am a gun guy, too, and am even pretty open about people quite properly being a transitory event whose duration should be mitigated by others in all kinds of matters.

[twa]

But how often does that happen? Also, don't you think that would just escalate the situation? If someone comes at me with a gun wanting my wallet I'm going to give it to them. Not pull out a gun. That is going to lead to bloodshed. I'd rather have my life.

Seems like some people love violence.

Is it escalation if they are going to take your life rather than just your wallet?

Some do love violence....apparently quite a few