WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[stevemcqueen1]

SteveMcqeen1
They forcibly disarmed their population. It took about 50 years of work and legislation we would call completely Draconian but the result of their efforts was a total transformation into an ideally safe society.
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is this what you are proposing?

http://www.miratelinc.com/blog/10-mo...-in-the-world/

It would be nice to one day make a list like that. I see Canada is highly ranked. They are not so culturally dissimilar like Japan is. Can't we take a look at what they do and see what we could copy from them that would work for us.

[twa]

Are you going to train my 60 year old mother on how to handle a Glock? Elemebtary school staffs are overwhelmingly female, I might add. This does not strike me as a population that is going to want to pack heat to go work.

And are you willing to see an increase in your property taxes for the kind of security that would be necessary here?

I could, and have certainly known some grannies that were more than capable(and willing)

I have not suggested arming all teachers(quite frankly I would like to replace a few),there are some that are worth the training and expense(which you could simply make tax deductible and self paid,except for the screening)

My wife and many friends teach elementary,there are many that would be willing and pass muster (a number already have passed CC.....besides which we have a bunch of military going to be looking for work.




My solution and a few mods to the building is the cheapest option ya cheapskate

[Corcaigh]

How about a simple, low-impact, rational proposal to bridge these immense gulfs....maybe "No white people can have guns."

With the Virginia Tech and Fort Hood massacres, I think you have to extend it to Asians and Muslims too in order to be fair. So only Latinos and Blacks can have guns. But as they mainly shoot each other when engaged in gang violence, it's all good.

Everyone wins!

[Sticksboi05]

Are you going to train my 60 year old mother on how to handle a Glock? Elemebtary school staffs are overwhelmingly female, I might add. This does not strike me as a population that is going to want to pack heat to go work.

And are you willing to see an increase in your property taxes for the kind of security that would be necessary here?

Right? I mean it's funny, people (not twa) but people yell about how the real issue is all the violence on TV and in culture but then want a gun in everyone's hand to set the stage for an ol' fashioned John Wayne shootout.

[panel]

It would be nice to one day make a list like that. I see Canada is highly ranked. They are not so culturally dissimilar like Japan is. Can't we take a look at what they do and see what we could copy from them that would work for us.

Japan and Canada are not that culturally different? I don't know about that one.

[Sticksboi05]

Japan and Canada are not that culturally different? I don't know about that one.

That's not what he said. He said Canada culturally is similar to us unlike Japan.

[twa]

You know what?

The more I read this stupid logic, the more angry I get.

I'm 38 years old. I have never been in a fist-fight. It shouldn't be up to me to protect me or my kids from an armed lunatic covered in body armor.

This was a freaking suburban elementary school in Connecticut. How many of those teachers had ever seen a firearm in their lives, let alone touched one, let alone fired one, let alone be capable of engaging in a damn shootout with a well-armed man in - again - body armor. In my daughters' school, the second grade teacher is in a wheelchair...the third grade teacher is a nun. How are they going to do in a shootout?.

Maybe you should look into anger management classes then

I must say I was surprised Connecticut has more gun applications than Texas (per capita) ....so you might be surprised.
How are they going to do in a one way shootout?....perhaps the teacher next door is capable.

but again I neither want, nor expect all teachers to be armed...just enough to make the bastards sweat


btw....teachers armed since 07
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174238129.html

[stevemcqueen1]

How about a simple, low-impact, rational proposal to bridge these immense gulfs....maybe "No white people can have guns."

On a serious note, if you look at the gun violence demographics in the country, you see it effects minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics, at a disproportionate rate. I believe that's why so many of our issues with gun violence get overlooked. If you notice, we only start really having this conversation after an incident where a white guy shoots up a bunch of white victims right in the heart of middle America.

It's too easy to ignore what happens in the ghetto. I think the media needs to do a better job synthesizing the data on rates of violence in the poor communities and presenting it in a way that really hammers home what a problem it is for our society.

---------- Post added December-18th-2012 at 07:36 PM ----------

Here's a good article about Japan's gun control laws from July. It discusses how they were able to demilitarize their population and eliminate gun homicide. It's an example of what radical and comprehensive change has accomplished in a formerly violent and militaristic population. It's not long, if you're wondering what the most restrictive gun laws in the world look like, take a look:

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

I've heard it said that, if you take a walk around Waikiki, it's only a matter of time until someone hands you a flyer of scantily clad women clutching handguns, overlaid with English and maybe Japanese text advertising one of the many local shooting ranges. The city's largest, the Royal Hawaiian Shooting Club, advertises instructors fluent in Japanese, which is also the default language of its website. For years, this peculiar Hawaiian industry has explicitly targeted Japanese tourists, drawing them away from beaches and resorts into shopping malls, to do things that are forbidden in their own country.

Waikiki's Japanese-filled ranges are the sort of quirk you might find in any major tourist town, but they're also an intersection of two societies with wildly different approaches to guns and their role in society. Friday's horrific shooting at an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater has been a reminder that America's gun control laws are the loosest in the developed world and its rate of gun-related homicide is the highest. Of the world's 23 "rich" countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22. With almost one privately owned firearm per person, America's ownership rate is the highest in the world; tribal-conflict-torn Yemen is ranked second, with a rate about half of America's.

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the country's infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptions tend to become big national news stories.

Japanese tourists who fire off a few rounds at the Royal Hawaiian Shooting Club would be breaking three separate laws back in Japan -- one for holding a handgun, one for possessing unlicensed bullets, and another violation for firing them -- the first of which alone is punishable by one to ten years in jail. Handguns are forbidden absolutely. Small-caliber rifles have been illegal to buy, sell, or transfer since 1971. Anyone who owned a rifle before then is allowed to keep it, but their heirs are required to turn it over to the police once the owner dies.

The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it's not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel's landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Even the most basic framework of Japan's approach to gun ownership is almost the polar opposite of America's. U.S. gun law begins with the second amendment's affirmation of the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" and narrows it down from there. Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that "No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords," later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it. The history of that is complicated, but it's worth noting that U.S. gun law has its roots in resistance to British gun restrictions, whereas some academic literature links the Japanese law to the national campaign to forcibly disarm the samurai, which may partially explain why the 1958 mentions firearms and swords side-by-side...

It discusses the cultural differences between the US and Japan at the link.

[Popeman38]

I am a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter. There are common sense approaches to take here. 1) Ban high capacity magazines. Nothing over 8 rounds is necessary for self defense. Sportsmen can apply for exceptions, and leagues can control those magazines. 2) Limit round velocity. No reason for a round to travel a mile. I have hunted enough in my life to know you don't need that much power. 3) Place a "retired" police officer in all schools. I think we all know why.

There are many more common sense ideas that can be enacted without infringing on 2nd Amendment rights.

[Mad Mike]

Not following. First you say "Pretty much every school has a security person of some type." and then you go on to note that Sandy Springs DID NOT in fact have anyone like that.

As to your last sentence, it doesn't follow from my post at all, that I can see. /double Please explain.

I can absolutely tell you that one person there, even if it was just the principle was in charge of whatever security they had even if as an added responsibility to their primary job. And you are ignoring the words "pretty much", meaning it is common but not standard. And once you get into Jr and High school, it *is* pretty much standard.

Time to open your eyes people. It's a big bad nasty world out there full of everything from thieves to predators to killers. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to make those people go away, nor will it take guns from them.

With some form of basic universal health care not only do we get everyone into the system to better identify and manage dangerous individuals, *and* we gain a healthier work force. Until then it's time we start giving our children the basic security we give to our material things.

[Jumbo]

I am a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter. There are common sense approaches to take here. 1) Ban high capacity magazines. Nothing over 8 rounds is necessary for self defense. Sportsmen can apply for exceptions, and leagues can control those magazines. 2) Limit round velocity. No reason for a round to travel a mile. I have hunted enough in my life to know you don't need that much power. 3) Place a "retired" police officer in all schools. I think we all know why.

There are many more common sense ideas that can be enacted without infringing on 2nd Amendment rights.

Yet another example of a "gun guy" who is willing to make some sort of honest effort, and just asks for reasonable and intelligent ideas, even if no one can "guarantee" a big positive result up front.

[Mad Mike]

Worst excuse ever. So we should have no laws then because crazy people aren't going to follow them anyway?

Had to come back to this.

If I pass a law against J walking, it shouldn't affect someone crossing at the crosswalk.

If you are going to pass a law to keep crazy people from killing innocent people, it would be helpful if the law: A) Works on the crazy people. And B) Does nothing to harm the ability of innocent people to defend themselves.

I'm outa here for now but for now I just want some of you to please consider that gun owners and gun rights advocates want a solution as much as anyone else. But we have a little more understanding of the technical and practical aspect of the issue than most.

[Stadium-Armory]

Fact: in 33 years of mass shootings, not one person has stopped the shooter with their personal weapon. It just doesn't work. #Fantasy

[China]

but again I neither want, nor expect all teachers to be armed...just enough to make the bastards sweat

The problem is that in these cases we're dealing with people with mental issues, so rational thought and the type of logic you're expecting from them that would "make them sweat" is not really applicable for these people.

[PleaseBlitz]

I can absolutely tell you that one person there, even if it was just the principle was in charge of whatever security they had even if as an added responsibility to their primary job. And you are ignoring the words "pretty much", meaning it is common but not standard. And once you get into Jr and High school, it *is* pretty much standard.

Time to open your eyes people. It's a big bad nasty world out there full of everything from thieves to predators to killers. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not going to make those people go away, nor will it take guns from them.

With some form of basic universal health care not only do we get everyone into the system to better identify and manage dangerous individuals, *and* we gain a healthier work force. Until then it's time we start giving our children the basic security we give to our material things.

Please go back and re-read my original post that you quoted. CAREFULLY. It is number 1059. Pay particular attention to the 2nd sentence, I think you read it wrong. If you go back and read it and believe that what you posted in response STILL makes sense, please turn in all of your guns, because you are a crazy person.

---------- Post added December-18th-2012 at 09:05 PM ----------

Fact: in 33 years of mass shootings, not one person has stopped the shooter with their personal weapon. It just doesn't work. #Fantasy

That's only because we haven't armed EVERYONE yet, preferably with multiple firearms and the understanding that they must be locked and loaded AT ALL TIMES. Jeez.