WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[MartinC]

Every society and individual has cultural and personal blind spots. Ours are many and glaring. Two of yours (society-wise) are dental hygiene and cuisine.

Touché

Some of our cooking is pretty lethal.

[Painkiller]

I saw that, I'm not able to reply to any posts in this thread directly right now for some reason. I waited for you to fix it.

To add to what I just said in my prior post. Take a county with an annual budget of 315 million dollars. Let's say there are 75 public schools and you hire 3 retired officers per school at 25,000 fixed salary per year. (That's 3 for every high, middle, and elementary school in the county)

75 X 3 = 225
225 x 25,000 = 5,625,000

5.5 million dollars...with a budget of 315 million? Drop in a bucket.

[Duckus]

I saw that, I'm not able to reply to any posts in this thread directly right now for some reason. I waited for you to fix it.

To add to what I just said in my prior post. Take a county with an annual budget of 315 million dollars. Let's say there are 75 public schools and you hire 3 retired officers per school at 25,000 fixed salary per year. (That's 3 for every high, middle, and elementary school in the county)

75 X 3 = 225
225 x 25,000 = 5,625,000

5.5 million dollars...with a budget of 315 million? Drop in a bucket.

Travis County which includes Austin has a ~580 million budget. There are over 300+ schools in this county.

$25,000? That is less than a mall cop with a flashlight here in Austin.

Highly trained professionals are not cheap. Probably $40,000 on the low end. You also probably need to provide health care, benifits, equipment and yearly training.

Also who is running this program? Need a few administrators and managers.

Also, schools budgets are being slashed across the county.

This would be BILLIONS per state at a time when most state budgets are facing historic cuts.

Texas alone cut $300 MILLION from school budgets just last year!

[Elessar78]

I saw that, I'm not able to reply to any posts in this thread directly right now for some reason. I waited for you to fix it.

To add to what I just said in my prior post. Take a county with an annual budget of 315 million dollars. Let's say there are 75 public schools and you hire 3 retired officers per school at 25,000 fixed salary per year. (That's 3 for every high, middle, and elementary school in the county)

75 X 3 = 225
225 x 25,000 = 5,625,000

5.5 million dollars...with a budget of 315 million? Drop in a bucket.

1.74% of the budget isn't a lot but are "you" increasing taxes to make that up cost? Or are you cutting something? Cut Programs? Cut Teacher's salaries/retirement/benefits? Cut equipment? Physical Plant maintenance?

Also, it's important to point out that when you employ someone full time, then there are more costs than just their salary. The cost of having an employee is around 2X of salary. So that $5.5M figure is actually more like $11M/year.

[PeterMP]

Great post Jumbo.

For me, my idea is not simply to put active duty police in the schools, but make it a job for retired police officers.

Retired state troopers and county deputies may apply as "school security officers." Pay these retired officers a reasonable salary with no additional benefits, as most will already have benefits with their retirement packages. Let's say no more than 25 to 30 thousand dollars a year. This income will supplement their retirement, and enable them to provide a much needed service to society. Let's say each and every school has a minimum of three working at any given time. Their purpose is simply to provide security to outside threats. Not get involved in school administrative decisions when it comes to the eduation of the students, and not to interfere with the educational process at all. These officers will only work when school is in session. (Monday through Friday, and have weekends and holidays off)

I can speak from experience when I say many would jump at an opportunity like this. If your retirement is bringing in 70,000 a year, add 30,000 to that and you are doing quite well.

For me, this is a "common sense" action.

I'll ask again, other than this one case does anybody know of a single case where having an armed person in an elementary school would have saved a single life in the last 40 years?

The last 60 years?

Your going to pay $75,000 per a school per a year to protect kids from a once in a life time even.

AND simultaneously your going to increase the odds of somebody being shot by accident (3 more guns in every school every day is going to result in some sort of increase in the accident rate) AND the chances that somebody that becomes unhinged that previously either wouldn't have been at the school (one of your 3 cops) or wouldn't have had access to a gun (any of your other school employees that some how might be able to get access to one of your three cops guns) at the school now will.

Are you even sure over time, you are going to decrease the number of kids killed by guns in an elementary school/year?

[KDawg]

Penn Jilette had a great take on this when someone questioned him about video games on O&A. He equated the video game "issue" to the "Rock and Roll has got to go!" issue years and years ago.

He went on to say this:

"Yes, the shooter did play Call of Duty. You know why? Because EVERY MOTHER ****ER UNDER THIRTY PLAYS CALL OF DUTY! More people play Call of Duty than drink milk! Every single mother ****er you know who's under the age of 25 has played Call of Duty in the last three days... When you say, 'Mom, everyone is listening to the Beatles,' it's nothing compared to the amount of people that play Call of Duty.

It's like you're watching Shakespeare stuff and Shakespeare has underage teen suicides, do we want our children watching this? **** YOU! It's art!... It's a desperate attempt"

[Painkiller]

You also probably need to provide health care, benifits, equipment and yearly training.

Also who is running this program? Need a few administrators and managers.

Also, schools budgets are being slashed across the county.

Not if they are retired Police because retired Police will already have health benefits through their retirement benefits. Either the security could fall under the local police departments, or answer to the Board of Education. Logistical decisions would have to be made. School budgets are being slashed across the country, but everybody wants to "do something" about this right? To prevent these things from happening, right? Well, here is the price we pay.

Or are you cutting something? Cut Programs? Cut Teacher's salaries/retirement/benefits? Cut equipment? Physical Plant maintenance?

Also, it's important to point out that when you employ someone full time, then there are more costs than just their salary. The cost of having an employee is around 2X of salary. So that $5.5M figure is actually more like $11M/year.

Yes, something would have to go if you prioritize. Children's safety should be of the utmost importance, so you trim some fat off the budget somewhere it isn't really needed. Like maybe the kids don't need every single new technological gizmo to learn on. Chalk boards still work.

I'll ask again, other than this one case does anybody know of a single case where having an armed person in an elementary school would have saved a single life in the last 40 years?

The last 60 years?

Your going to pay $75,000 per a school per a year to protect kids from a once in a life time even.

AND simultaneously your going to increase the odds of somebody being shot by accident (3 more guns in every school every day is going to result in some sort of increase in the accident rate) AND the chances that somebody that becomes unhinged that previously either wouldn't have been at the school (one of your 3 cops) or wouldn't have had access to a gun (any of your other school employees that some how might be able to get access to one of your three cops guns) at the school now will.

Are you even sure over time, you are going to decrease the number of kids killed by guns in an elementary school/year?

Well, if you want to be proactive than these are the choices you have to make. I work for an agency that places cops in schools. I don't know of a single incident in my long career where anything like what you have described has happened. As to your question, are you even sure over time if you will decrease the number of kids killed by guns in an elementary school year....I'm much more confident this will work than banning new sales of assault rifles. Absolutely. In a country that already has 300 million plus guns, you need a practical, realistic, and attainable solution. I have presented one. Now, are people willing to pay that price to make it happen? How serious are we about protecting the kids?

[Duckus]

Not if they are retired Police because retired Police will already have health benefits through their retirement benefits. Either the security could fall under the local police departments, or answer to the Board of Education. Logistical decisions would have to be made. School budgets are being slashed across the country, but everybody wants to "do something" about this right? To prevent these things from happening, right? Well, here is the price we pay.

Honestly, I don't think you are understand the scale of a project like this nationally. It is enormous.

This would be BILLIONS per state per year. Texas cut education by $300 million just last year, where are we finding these billions per year to ADD to the budget??

It just doesn't exist and a mandate would probably bankrupt hundreds of local governments.

And yes, this is the "price we pay" for safety, because we can't bear to live in a world in which you can't buy a semi-automatic assault rifle, with extended magazine clips, without a background check or physiological evaluation. THAT price is just way too high!

[Painkiller]

Honestly, I don't think you are understand the scale of a project like this nationally. It is enormous.

This would be BILLIONS per state per year. Texas cut education by $300 million just last year, where are we finding these billions per year to ADD to the budget??

It just doesn't exist and a mandate would probably bankrupt hundreds of local governments.

And yes, this is the "price we pay" for safety, because we can't bear to live in a world in which you can't buy a semi-automatic assault rifle, with extended magazine clips, without a background check or physiological evaluation. THAT price is just way too high!

I think this could be done "on the cheap" if managed and administered properly. You get legitimate security (What better "security guard" than a retired police officer). No matter how you slice it, it's going to cost, and something else would have to go. You would probably have to raise taxes, BUT, it's a solution that is realistic and attainable. If you go back and read my most recent post, you will find I would concede banning new sales of certain types of weapons, and I am for extensive background and mental health checks.

I just don't think it would accomplish anything, but give politicians "evidence" that they tried to do "something" before the next one. There are 300 million guns in this country. (Honestly, that's a conservative estimate) Let that number sink in. Unless you would endorse DRASTIC search and seizure violations to get them back, probably costing many lives, there is no solution to be found there.

[Prosperity]

What about movie theaters?

[Duckus]

I think this could be done "on the cheap" if managed and administered properly. You get legitimate security (What better "security guard" than a retired police officer). No matter how you slice it, it's going to cost, and something else would have to go. You would probably have to raise taxes, BUT, it's a solution that is realistic and attainable. If you go back and read my most recent post, you will find I would concede banning new sales of certain types of weapons, and I am for extensive background and mental health checks.

I just don't think it would accomplish anything, but give politicians "evidence" that they tried to do "something" before the next one. There are 300 million guns in this country. (Honestly, that's a conservative estimate) Let that number sink in. Unless you would endorse DRASTIC search and seizure violations to get them back, probably costing many lives, there is no solution to be found there.

Let me just say, I don't think it is a necessarily bad idea. I think the idea of arming school teachers is insane, but trained police is fine. I just think we are vastly underestimating costs. When was the last time the government did something on the cheap? Take whatever you THINK it will cost and triple it, and we probably still would be low in the end.

My big problem is I think this is an unfair burden to put on already underfunded school districts. Now, if there is a way to pay for this without putting the burden on local governments, I would be more interested.

So, what about this:

1) Significant tax all new gun sales.

2) Mandatory yearly registration tax and inspection of all weapons.

If the money above paid for school security, I would be interested.

You combine new taxes + school security with new gun control and extensive background check technology and I think we have a deal.

[Painkiller]

1) Significant tax all new gun sales.

2) Mandatory yearly registration tax and inspection of all weapons.

If the money above paid for school security, I would be interested.

You combine new taxes + school security with new gun control and extensive background check technology and I think we have a deal.

You have to give to get, so maybe there is a solution to be found here. It's much more reasonable than banning guns to make us sleep better at night. I'm not sure the point of annual inspections, but if we were to put security in schools, perhaps additional taxes on sales is a concession.

[AsburySkinsFan]

$25,000? That is less than a mall cop with a flashlight here in Austin.

Rest well America...we are protecting your children!!!!

[ixcuincle]

[Painkiller]

Rest well America...we are protecting your children!!!!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8...80ba69bb18.jpg

Well that's a great argument against the idea. Post a picture of dead mall security guard, or whatever he was.