WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[MartinC]

Take a look at what happens to many cities and geographical areas after a large enough natural disaster hits. Chaos, large scale burglary and robbery, property destruction, ineffective law enforcement. Every man for himself.

Lets set aside the example of the Holocaust - its a frankly ridiculous parallel to try to make.

Can you find any example of 'large scale burglary, property destruction, ineffective law enforcement' in say the last 50 years in a Western Democracy in these circumstances? There have been a few earthquakes and other natural disasters in Europe (where there is minimal gun ownership) the last I can think of being in Italy. Lots of property damage, medical and emergency services stretched to breaking point - but no break down I law and order or large scale looting.

The idea that you need an armed population in the US to mitigate against a state of anarchy locally or nationally as a justification for the scale of gun ownership in the US or to legitimize the continued relevance of the second amendment is, to me, a really weak argument.

[alexey]

Just to let you guys know, I've been listening to talk radio on and off with the aim of keeping up to date with views of the alternative universe. The angle "dictators disarm people before doing bad things" is very common. When people stop by and drop a line about that, you can safely conclude that their programming comes from there.

[Painkiller]

Lets set aside the example of the Holocaust - its a frankly ridiculous parallel to try to make.

Actually, it's not, but whatever. I said my bit.

Can you find any example of 'large scale burglary, property destruction, ineffective law enforcement' in say the last 50 years in a Western Democracy in these circumstances?

New Orleans after Katrina

[alexey]

Btw whenever you are tempted to mention bad things that happen when good people do not have guns, please also mention bad things that happen when bad people get guns (Somalia, Africa, etc)

[DCranon21]

This is one of the real reasons why we won't get real gun control legislation in this country. I present you Exhibit A:

On NBC’s Meet the Press, National Rifle Association chief Wayne LaPierre on Sunday refused to support new gun control legislation and maintained his support for putting armed guards and police in schools in response to the Dec. 14 school shootings in Newtown, Con“If it’s crazy to call for putting police in and securing our schools to protect our children, then call me crazy,” LaPierre told NBC’s David Gregory.

Nevermind that there is a gun control issue in this country, let's sell more guns to the masses and more killings will happen.

[Bang]

the holocaust comparison IS ridiculous, because the Nazis disarmed the public with the idea in mind to do away with the Jews, at very earliest, to use them as slave labor and to militarize the entire populace and start a war.

Now if any of those conditions exist here, then you'd have something with the holocaust comparison.
Nevermind the fact that disarming our population is impossible.

frankly, the constant comparisons and analogies that this debate spawns are either insults to our overall intelligence in that we would rather do that then actually look at our problem and try to solve it, or they show our intelligence is way lower than I expect..


~Bang

[skinsmarydu]

Painkiller, you only scratched the surface...and thanks for making some of us drill down further. On Huffpost there's a "to live and die in America". I couldn't believe my eyes.

[Burgold]

frankly, the constant comparisons and analogies that this debate spawns are either insults to our overall intelligence in that we would rather do that then actually look at our problem and try to solve it, or they show our intelligence is way lower than I expect..


~Bang

... or it points to a genuine and sincere level of paranoia which indicats the kind of mental instability that would make gun ownership a threat to themselves and others!

[Painkiller]

For me, I think it's time I bow out of this conversation. We just keep going around in circles. The majority here obviously don't agree with me, and that's ok. We have the right to disagree with each other. On any other topic I'm confident that most of us would find we have many things in common.

I will say this much in closing to all of you. Good luck trying to get any 'meangful' legislation passed banning specific types of weapons that you think will actually stop any of these massacres from happening. Unfortunately, they will continue to happen with whatever weapons are readily available, and make no mistake there are plenty of readily available weapons in America. As I've said before, if going after specific items would make people sleep better at night, again good luck. I might even get behind certain things as an act of good faith, but we need a major shift culturally and socially before anything positive can really happen. Honestly, I'm not sure if that shift is possible at this point. The cat was let out of the bag a long time ago.

This site exists predominately for discussion about the Washington Redskins, and we have a game in a few hours. I'm getting back to why I joined here in the first place.

HTTR

[Burgold]

Don't take it personally. This has been a contentious issue for just about 200 years. It's healthy that we joust on it. For me, that's hopeful. I don't think we've had an honest gun discussion in almost twenty years. That is actually what frustrated me most about the NRA presser. It wasn't an honest dialogue, it was building a baracade and doubling down on the hostility.

[mboyd784]

The NRA and arms industry in 3-minute music video form. Enjoy!

[Bang]

... or it points to a genuine and sincere level of paranoia which indicats the kind of mental instability that would make gun ownership a threat to themselves and others!

The weird thing about this comparison is that the one side of our political spectrum that acts more like an oppressive fascist is permanently in favor of citizens being armed to the teeth to defend themselves against government oppressors..
the democrats can't even peaceably pass legislation when they have a super majority,, people are afraid they'll be able to clamp down like Nazis?' It's laughable.

to even entertain it for a moment,, to try and recreate a holocaust situation, the government will need the cooperation of the military. And I trust our military in this area. More so that the Gov't,, the military IS of the people and by the people.

~Bang

[twa]

... or it points to a genuine and sincere level of paranoia which indicats the kind of mental instability that would make gun ownership a threat to themselves and others!

one fed by dweebs like Cuomo talking about confiscating and forced buy-backs

seems like only yesterday the liberals claimed gun control was not on the agenda


keep talking,and they will keep buying

[Burgold]

one fed by dweebs like Cuomo talking about confiscating and forced buy-backs

seems like only yesterday the liberals claimed gun control was not on the agenda


keep talking,and they will keep buying

It wasn't. Circumstances changed. Only a fool ignores reality. It's why I hate the Grover Norquist pledge. You have to bend with the times. Exercising intellectual rigor is good. Exercising intellectual rigor mortis is bad.

[Thiebear]

Phase1:
Schools: Pepper spray and Tasers don't really cost that much and don't take the same amount of time to learn. It is non-lethal and if used improperly will not cause enough harm to worry about compared to a snub nose 38.
Homes: Start with an Ad campaign about turning in your guns for fair market value, In addition we will give you a Tasef/Pepperspray and classes on how to use them if you want.
Point out how defending yourself in your homes with a Gun has the same chances of you going to jail as the intruder.
Point out how defending yourself in your home with a Taser/Pspray is going to be 'allowed' even in the incidental death cases.
This also makes the Taser and PSpray companies more profitable.
Put out that you can carry a Taser with you in public without fear of arrest.
Start the campaign and fix 35+% of this on the cheap.

Phase 2: Phaser's
The best thing about our NASA is the things that come out of it. Lets put more money into Science and create our Stun phasers.
That'll fix your guns in schools and eliminate another 35% of the guns at homes.
That and I want a Phaser.