WE: After school shooting in Connecticut, Piers Morgan blasts America’s ‘gun madness’

[Jumbo]

Big thread, I'll try to find it.

It's on the prev page, R7, but read my edit--I thought at first you were implying that the fact that it was his moms guns suggested we need not be concerned about the gun situation in our society. My error.

[cahones01]

For those advocating a ban on guns, Chicago and Washington DC did (which was ruled unconstitutional) and it didn't do any good. The number of murders in DC rose 156% in the years following the gun ban, and Chicago had a 41% increase. Criminals do not follow laws. If someone wants to commit murder, no law will stop them. They will find a way. If this kid wasn't able to get his hands on a gun, he could have just as easily built a bomb (instructions readily found on the internet) and killed even more people.

You also need to keep in mind why we have the 2nd Amendment in the first place. It isn't to protect ourselves from each other, it isn't to go hunting or shoot holes in paper at the gun range. It's to prevent tyranny. That's why the words "being necessary to the security of a free state" are in the amendment. If the government is the only one allowed to have guns, how can the citizens prevent the formation of tyrannical state?

[Thiebear]

Something I have been thinking for months now, and it's not a good sign for you. You have gone from being an eccentric/odd/eclectic/confusing poster, but also one with many positive aspects over the years, to just being more weird, argumentative , trollish, ridiculous, and generally troublesome more often. Might want to self-examine.

That's how the govg works if it's fixed through them.
If your calling me out as a troll I'd look at my last 20 posts
And get back to you tonight. Waiting at the metro for
3 hours for child pickup is more likely for tonight.

[hailer21]

The guns are out there in the millions. Banning guns is about as good as banning marijuana. It won't prevent those who want a gun from obtaining one.

What I think should happen is a massive increase in the amount of properly trained, armed, school security officers. How our school systems funds this force and recruits for it is beyond me but this is what I believe is a sensible solution to preventing this sort of massacre violence.

This incident doesn't seem very preventable via an all-out gun ban (not realistically enforceable) or much higher standards for gun ownership credentials. Even if gun owners were required to pass a mental exam, background check, and proper use classes, crazies like the Connecticut man can still simply steal a gun from their non-crazy gun owning friend.

And even if the guns were completely taken away from harmful individuals, is it realistic to think that these sorts of people wouldn't figure out another way to cause destruction?

[China]

We're at the point now we have to take security more seriously. I want to see more about how in the hell this grown man got all the way into an elementary school classroom in the first place, armed.

I thought I read he had some connection to the school? I know it wouldn't be that difficult at my daughter's elementary school. You ring the buzzer to gain entrance to the administrative offices. Once inside the building all anyone would have to do would be to pull the gun and go nuts. I'm not sure how you would prevent it short of having some type of TSA security procedure for anyone entering the school.

[Renegade7]

It's on the prev page, R7, but read my edit--I thought at first you were implying that the fact that it was his moms guns suggested we need not be concerned about the gun situation in our society. My error.

Nah, I saw your N/M and your post. You're good.

And I hear what people are talking about a possible social change and this still not being the straw that breaks the camels back on this issue. I personally and going to give this another 24-48 hours for more solid information to come out on this. While I'm not in the camp of giving every teacher a gun now, I whole heartedly believe every public school in the country should have at least one armed security guard on site from now on.

I still want to know how this guy got all the way to the classroom like that and nobody noticed until he started shooting. Did they even ID him when he came in, or did he sneak in the back like the auora guy?

---------- Post added December-14th-2012 at 07:46 PM ----------

I thought I read he had some connection to the school? I know it wouldn't be that difficult at my daughter's elementary school. You ring the buzzer to gain entrance to the administrative offices. Once inside the building all anyone would have to do would be to pull the gun and go nuts. I'm not sure how you would prevent it short of having some type of TSA security procedure for anyone entering the school.

Most school's I've been to you have to do the whole sign-in sheet thing and have a valid reason for being there, especially if you don't have a child attending the school. Was that even done here?

Again, every public school should have at least one armed officer from now on. That's a start.

[2v2nv]

I thought I read he had some connection to the school? I know it wouldn't be that difficult at my daughter's elementary school. You ring the buzzer to gain entrance to the administrative offices. Once inside the building all anyone would have to do would be to pull the gun and go nuts. I'm not sure how you would prevent it short of having some type of TSA security procedure for anyone entering the school.

Having a locked door policy would help. No one gets in unless by appointment. Also have a metal detector at the main entrance. Nothing is going to completely stop this stuff but these two things would considerably help IMO. Higher ranking government buildings have these two things and they never have any problem. Children IMO are worth the same security.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The problem is that it is ridiculously easy to get a gun in America.

Got a clean record? Go a gun store, pick out your gun, plunk down cash, get your gun 3 days later.
Underage or got a criminal record? Go to a gun store with a buddy that has a clean record, pick out your gun, give your buddy the money, have him buy the gun, then come back 3 days later, and grab the gun from your buddy.
Or go to a black-market vendor where they don't give a ****.

And it doesn't help that we have a massive industry dedicated to producing massive amounts of firearms for public use, leading to a perverse incentive to sell guns, as many guns as they can regardless of the social consequences. Why should the merchants of death give a **** about kids dying in shootings (whether it's in Detroit, USA, Newton, USA, Ciudad Juarez, Mexico or Kinhasa, Congo)? They're making money.

And it really doesn't help that the conservative cult of MUH FREEDOM sees the obviously significant expansion of government needed to stop this as some kind of socialist takeover (really, what needs to happen is a hard cap on the number of guns that can be produced each year, coupled with a massive gun buyback, and the forcible nationalization and dissolution of gun companies - essentially a full out statist takeover to solve a major societal problem, which tends to be the only way social problems get solved)

Basically the moral of the story is that this is a political issue (no matter how much the right wing tries to make it not to be so, as if it weren't a result of their policies) and the political issue is that one side of our political spectrum is at best in a state of arrested mental development, and at worst, psychopathic. Don't like it? I'm sounding too inflammatory? Tough. Stop drinking the freedom kool-aid and fix ****.

And no, I'm not saying ban all guns. I think you should pay 300-500 dollars for one, and there should be a long wait-list for one. If you REALLY need a gun to protect your family, you'll get one. If you want to hunt for sport, then an expensive gun is just part of the cost, just like lots of other hobbies. You should not be able to walk into a gun store and get a gun in 3 days. And if someone gets shot with a gun you own, you're legally, or even criminally, liable, period, end of discussion. We

[SpringfieldSkins]

You can't ban guns. Aside from the fact that you'd never get the support to do it, it's logistically impossible and civilly irresponsible.

Say you ban all guns... tomorrow. How does one go about collecting the millions of guns that are currently in the hands of our civilians, just ask them to turn them in nicely? Of course they won't turn in their guns. So you make it a crime to own a gun. Great, now you've just turned millions of law abiding citizens into criminals. You think our prison system is totally ****ed right now, just wait until you make owning a shotgun a felony. So yes, banning guns is a logistical impossibility.

The civil aspect of it goes even further. I do not trust our military and police to be the only people in the whole country that can legally carry a gun. Not one bit. I don't trust them to tap our phone calls, I don't trust them on this either. Not that we are planning some sort of coup, but civilians need to be able to own guns. If they can't then it's just a tyranny. Further on our way to a fascist state.

What happened today is a complete tragedy. It makes me sick to think about the complete randomness of it. It's something that could have happened at my local elementary school. I got teary eyed looking at pictures of the parents that are grief stricken trying to figure out what is happening with their children. This is something that is not acceptable. Banning guns is not the answer though. I don't know what will stop this kind of madness. I'm not sure that anyone does.


Also, I'll add that I am not currently a gun owner. I don't want the ability for me to own one if I so choose to be curtailed though.

[Stugein]

Tough. If you're against gun control, you're a psychopath.

You can't be serious.

[China]

Most school's I've been to you have to do the whole sign-in sheet thing and have a valid reason for being there, especially if you don't have a child attending the school. Was that even done here?

Again, every public school should have at least one armed officer from now on. That's a start.

Yeah, that's how it is at my daughter's school. My point is that signing in doesn't prevent anything. Once you're in the building to where you sign it you could pull the gun there, go nuts and proceed to wherever in the school. I don't think a single armed guard would necessarily prevent someone who was determined. Just come in to the sign in area, pull the gun and take out the guard before he realizes what's going on and go from there. If someone is truly crazy and determined, they'll do it anyway. We're not talking about deterring rational people who would think twice about a guard. These people are by definition not rational.

[Jumbo]

That's how the govg works if it's fixed through them.
If your calling me out as a troll I'd look at my last 20 posts
And get back to you tonight. Waiting at the metro for
3 hours for child pickup is more likely for tonight.

No sweat.

Juts thought I'd share the thought, harsh as it may be, since it's popped into my head often enough.

You matter to me.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

You can't be serious.

I'm dead serious. If you have a problem with regulating how deadly weapons are sold and distributed in this country, because of some abstract concept of "freedom", the BEST thing I can say about you is that you're ****ing infantile.

[stevenaa]

There was some interesting commentary by someone on CNN saying that the USA has gone too far with patient "rights" and have made it far too difficult to incarcerate people for mental illness. I don't know a lot about that but she made some interesting points.

I still think we need to take a hard look at violence portrayed in our society. I would start with all of these video games. Guns have been available since 1790. These school shootings have begun in the modern Information Age. I challenge anyone who thinks that is coincidental.

100% agree zoony. Violent movies and Video games desensitze kids to the reality of death. People don't just drop dead on the spot when shot. Anyone who's gone hunting knows how strong the will to live is and just how much damage a living animal can take before ultimately dying. Violent entertainment is a huge factor.

[stevenaa]

There was some interesting commentary by someone on CNN saying that the USA has gone too far with patient "rights" and have made it far too difficult to incarcerate people for mental illness. I don't know a lot about that but she made some interesting points.

I still think we need to take a hard look at violence portrayed in our society. I would start with all of these video games. Guns have been available since 1790. These school shootings have begun in the modern Information Age. I challenge anyone who thinks that is coincidental.

100% agree zoony. Violent movies and Video games desensitze kids to the reality of death. People don't just drop dead on the spot when shot. Anyone who's gone hunting knows how strong the will to live is and just how much damage a living animal can take before ultimately dying. Violent entertainment is a huge factor. It also removes any sense of responsibility for actoins.