I didn't like Mike Wise all that much but why did he do that. It was the same type of question that got this whole ESPN First Take thing going.
I just want...for one damn minute to finally enjoy talking about the Redskins winning football games. But it seems like everytime something positive happens with this team, either the league, media, fans or something stupid has to rain on the parade.
So sick of this. I just want to enjoy football again. That's all I want. Can we just enjoy winning? Can we just enjoy the best time of our team for the first time in 20 years? Is it too much to ask all the people who hate the name to just shove it where the sun don't shine for one godamn season so we can enjoy football? Seriously. Get bent!
---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 01:12 PM ----------
Redskins 2013 Opponents:
Home- Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, Kansas City, San Diego
Away- Dallas, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Green Bay, Minnesota, Atlanta, Denver, Oakland
I'll just add one point that relates to your topic and also to the polls that people are referencing.
What defines a Native American?
I mean, Elizabeth Warren just had a whole controversy in the senate debate a few months back because she was claiming to be such. I'm not sure the full extent of that story, but there are a lot of stories of people who claim this heritage and are just typical White guys or Black gals or whatever else. And a lot of what's being fed to us as "the opinion" of a certain group of people is being fed to us by the people conducting the polls. And it doesn't really serve their interests to certify anyone's heritage, all a lot of them care about is the end result - the same thing a lot of people have quoted today - that 90% number, with little interest in how these polls were actually conducted, the actual wording of questions asked, or several other things.
Here's an excerpt from an NPR interview on the subject: entitled Who Gets to Decide Who is-Native American
"CAPRICCIOSO: Right. Well, some are very outraged because they feel like this is just another example that has happened now throughout history of people coming in and trying to get the benefits of being an Indian without having faced the hardships that their family might have experienced in the past and their ancestors might have experienced. So, on that level, some are very outraged.
Others are very willing to give Elizabeth Warren a pass on this. They see her as a person who might be sympathetic to Native American issues, especially if she considers herself Native American. In the future, she might be a good ally. So they don't want to be too hard on her, necessarily.
But I think every Indian, when questions of native identity come up, you get warning signs in your brain. How much can you trust this person? And so a good way to help foster that trust would be to talk more with those people who have those kinds of concerns and..."
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Mike Wise has always been a sanctimonious, thin-skinned, unprofessional clown. During the Jason Campbell era, he would actually admit that he couldn't write about JC objectively because JC was so nice to him. Awww!
Jason Campbell had something like 40-50 starts to prove his worth and Wise, to the end, was treating the guy with kid gloves, sucking his ass, and making excuses for him. An absolutely ridiculous writer. I have no doubt that he'll read this thread and rage about it from home, claiming that the world is out to get him.
Mike Wise is the WORST. A grenade-thrower, nothing more.
the ridiculousness of this annual argument is this......sports names are meant to be a source or means of intimidation. a name that's meant to bear respect among foes & place fear into the hearts & minds of your enemies.
now...this is sports, so i believe all names fall short on the fear-factor, as it were......but.
i myself am Chirakawa Apache, as was my Grandfather & Grandmother on my Father's side. i have many other relatives that i see on a yearly basis that are much more "ethnic" than i am. i can tell you that we all look at it the same way...
a) who the eff cares....there are much more important things to worry about in life...what someone calls someone else is unimportant. unless of course you call us "Indians." that's MUCH more ignorant than Redskin. one actually applies.
b) forgetting historical anecdotes (like Redskins actually being a tribesname <not in English of course>, or the name being a reference to the Boston Tea-Partiers who dressed up with red paint) for a few minutes..........we generally consider the name an honor. that it would be chosen to represent a franchise in professional sports as their honor-guard, so to speak, & the symbol to all as their chosen reputation. furthermore....as they succeed to build a well-represented tradition, all negative connotations go out the window.
c) to us...celebrating Thanksgiving or Columbus day are exponentially more offensive than a team chosing to represent their glorious franchise & tradition upon a nation of people.
to be honest...naming a team "blackskins" wouldn't be all that bad either if it weren't for all the uppity people of this world. if you used another term that started with an N then i would see your point...but representing a person factually by their outward appearance is not a negative imho..........while it can be if used as a derogatory means, it usually is a way to describe a person much like one would describe a house or car by its color.
i really can't say enough that this issue for most of us comes down to a badge of honor more than it does any negative connotation. it's more offensive that people who are not of Native descent would continue to push to make this an issue without any relevant opinions being given by the tribesmen/women of America.
the things that are more annoying than this name or logo are as follows: 1) the aformentioned holidays, 2) the Tomahawk chop, 3) non-natives drumming or dancing as to attempt to mimic Native dance, 4) people taking up a cause for our part without us imploring for such assistance.
all this being said...in our world with the PC police run amok as has been the case, i fully expect that within my lifetime our team will have to change its chosen monniker. in some ways i am beginning to wish the F/O would just take the initiative in the matter instead of waiting to have their hand forced & make a move to a more "acceptable" nickname.
something i have considered would be changing the name to say "Warriors" & going with a more forward-thinking approach like the Oregon Ducks. we could have multiple uniform sets, like say a camoflauge uni to represent modern warriors, a spartan or roman-esque uni, a Native uni.......& basically represent multiple, varying forms of "Warriors" throughout history. or, we could maybe even just keep them American in nature, i.e.....natives, colonials, modern, black-ops........you get the idea. it would make us even more unique & would give us a real opportunity to boost creativity within the NFL community.
just a thought.
Last edited by nemocystem; December-20th-2012 at 01:37 PM.
It's also somewhat offensive to assume that minorities should be spokespersons for all racial matters. "Oooo, so you're a black QB for the Redskins, which qualifies you to address this topic!" Wise is the paternalistic white guy who bombards his black "friends" with questions about race, assuming that they have some sort of mystical knowledge about race that he couldn't possibly figure out on his own.
When someone feels there is a societal injustice going on, and they feel passionate about that fact, it's almost never enough for them to say, "I disagree with this, but that's the last I'll say about it." And thank goodness that's the case, otherwise change would NEVER happen. When you believe in something like that strongly and passionately, you keep making your case until either you can get enough people on your side to effect change or you become frustrated at the lack of support and eventually give up. Clearly Wise isn't at the latter point yet.
The "express your disagreement and move along" comment applies to people who just aren't affected or simply don't care about the issue being presented. My issue was that there's so much outrage here that he even brought up the question. I say, respond to his question with solid reasons why you disagree and move along. To me, that's a much more effective counter to his argument than saying, "How dare you even ask this?" Again, that's my issue with this thread. I don't think that's fair. That probably just emboldens his martyr complex even more.
It's the burden of Mike Wise and the people he claims to represent to make you feel differently, but he should still have the right, within reason, to make his case as often as he wants. If the whole Rob Parker thing hadn't happened, I would have more of an issue with him bringing the question up out of the blue, but in light of that occurrence, I thought it was a totally understandable and valid time for Mike to bring up his long-argued point again. There was some sort of understandable segue there in my view.
---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 03:39 PM ----------
Last edited by Diss; December-20th-2012 at 02:42 PM.
If it were not for the Football team who the hell would even think about any Indians? When i see the logo i then realize they suffered and lost all they had.Now they have casino's and are doing pretty good.Life moves on and being conquered is part of history.I think the name and logo are just fine.
Last edited by Diss; December-20th-2012 at 02:53 PM.
Oh, and "he came away with nothing"? This thread alone proves that's not the case. He got people talking once again about his issue. That's probably all he could've hoped for. Mission accomplished.
Last edited by Diss; December-20th-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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