PFT: Mike Shanahan: No one in NFL history has played at RG3′s level

[doghouse4x4]

You can't measure a QB's accuracy by measuring QB + Scheme + Receivers

---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 03:23 PM ----------

We can't debate different views of the same evidence.

We don't see the same thing.

So you are basically saying that you can't back up anything you are saying with actual numbers? That would put your evidence squarely with that which you discount.

You are going to be hard pressed to find anyone agreeing with the assertion Manning is not a superlative talent.

[sempre_victrix]

It gives me hope of what this team can do if we get a good pass blocking O-line in place and at least one more WR like Garcon. If Fred Davis comes back at 100%, this will be a dangerous offense. Had Mara/Goodell not jacked with our salary cap, we'd be be awesome right now.

[Oldfan]

So you are basically saying that you can't back up anything you are saying with actual numbers? That would put your evidence squarely with that which you discount.

I'll agree with that. Your opinions backed with bogus numbers are about equal to mine with no number support.

You are going to be hard pressed to find anyone agreeing with the assertion Manning is not a superlative talent.

That's not a problem for me. It's a frequent event for people like me who don't jump onto bandwagons without thinking.

[doghouse4x4]

I'll agree with that. Your opinions backed with bogus numbers are about equal to mine with no number support.

Fair enough.

[KDawg]

Peyton has good accuracy and good arm strength, but I wouldn't put him at the top of either of those lists of all time, let alone the current league. Where Manning makes his money, and in my opinion makes him a candidate for greatest of all time is his intelligence and work ethic. It's immeasurable. I can't tell you numbers, there are none. But, he gets his teammates to put in the work and he puts in hours. He's literally seen every coverage many, many times. It's extremely difficult to trick him by sugaring a defense. That's why he's so good. From a physical skillset perspective, Manning is a good NFL quarterback. From a total perspective, he's one of the greatest of all time.

[doghouse4x4]

Peyton has good accuracy and good arm strength, but I wouldn't put him at the top of either of those lists of all time, let alone the current league. Where Manning makes his money, and in my opinion makes him a candidate for greatest of all time is his intelligence and work ethic. It's immeasurable. I can't tell you numbers, there are none. But, he gets his teammates to put in the work and he puts in hours. He's literally seen every coverage many, many times. It's extremely difficult to trick him by sugaring a defense. That's why he's so good. From a physical skillset perspective, Manning is a good NFL quarterback. From a total perspective, he's one of the greatest of all time.

I would say that's pretty.......







accurate!

[Oldfan]

Peyton has good accuracy and good arm strength, but I wouldn't put him at the top of either of those lists of all time, let alone the current league. Where Manning makes his money, and in my opinion makes him a candidate for greatest of all time is his intelligence and work ethic. It's immeasurable. I can't tell you numbers, there are none. But, he gets his teammates to put in the work and he puts in hours. He's literally seen every coverage many, many times. It's extremely difficult to trick him by sugaring a defense. That's why he's so good. From a physical skillset perspective, Manning is a good NFL quarterback. From a total perspective, he's one of the greatest of all time.

I see Peyton as "Archie's Revenge." Because he played for the hapless Saints, Archie Manning might well be the most underrated QB of all time while his son Peyton surely is the most overrated. So, all things considered, maybe the final result is fair.

I think Peyton deserves credit for putting in the work to come as close to achieving 100% of his potential as humanly possible. But the Colts organizational plan seemed designed better to make a QB look good than to win championships.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Your old man is a smart dude!

His dad was talking about Vince Young lmao!!

[KDawg]

I see Peyton as "Archie's Revenge." Because he played for the hapless Saints, Archie Manning might well be the most underrated QB of all time while his son Peyton surely is the most overrated. So, all things considered, maybe the final result is fair.

I think Peyton deserves credit for putting in the work to come as close to achieving 100% of his potential as humanly possible. But the Colts organizational plan seemed designed better to make a QB look good than to win championships.

Perhaps, but they managed to win one anyways. And if that is the case, Peyton deserves a lion's share of the credit. But as you and I both know, a quarterback doesn't win a championship on his own. Tom Moore and the rest of the team deserve credit as well. But I don't think you can say Peyton is "overrated".

I'll accept, without a question, the criticism of his total physical skillset being decent to good. There really is nothing from a physical perspective about Manning that really stands out. It's what you can't measure that makes him so good.

Furthermore, his current body of work with Denver (he's running the same system, essentially, with different verbiage. Sidebar: I heard a story somewhere, don't remember where, that Manning was calling plays in Indy's terminology and Tamme had to pull him aside and tell him, "dude, this is Denver!" ) supports that while his physical skillset is declining, as it always will with age, he's still crazy effective. He is a student of the game.

[brandymac27]

His dad was talking about Vince Young lmao!!

Ummm, I'm a "she", and he was referring to Steve


I swear, I'm gonna blow a freaking gasket! How many guys are named Brandy????? I'm gonna research this **** for myself. I've been on ES for over 5 years, and I still get called dude. I'm sorry. This isn't necessarily intended just for GO HAMSKINS, but dammit I'm a female. This **** is driving me crazy, my anxiety is bad because I'm nervous about the game, and I keep getting called a dude. Son of a *****, I need a drink.

[doghouse4x4]

I'll accept, without a question, the criticism of his total physical skillset being decent to good. There really is nothing from a physical perspective about Manning that really stands out. It's what you can't measure that makes him so good.

Exactly, which was my original point.

[Oldfan]

...I'll accept, without a question, the criticism of his total physical skillset being decent to good. There really is nothing from a physical perspective about Manning that really stands out. It's what you can't measure that makes him so good...

You can't see them. They can't be measured. Then why are you so sure these intangible assets you claim actually exist?

[skinny21]

He was obviously referring to QBs in their rookie season. ES on a tangent...can't say I'm surprised.

I don't know about that. Yes, it's easy to point out other qbs (in history) that have been more explosive (passing), efficient, accurate, etc. But no QB has done so well in all those areas while also rushing as well and helping the runningback as much as Griffin.

Basically, he's been very good to great in almost every category (including intangible ones) while also being the best rushing QB in league history. Therefore, taken as a whole, I can see Mike making the argument that no QB has ever played at Griffin's level.

[KDawg]

You can't see them. They can't be measured. Then why are you so sure these intangible assets you claim actually exist?

Great question. I'll answer in the best way I know how. It likely won't satisfy you, but that's okay

I know the game. I see his sight adjustments and reads. Sometimes it takes me a bunch of rewinds to see it, but I see it. He sees things as they happen. It's apparent. That doesn't mean he's mistake free, but he is able to capitalize on a defense's cues and keys and make a positive impact on his team.

Furthermore, there has to be a reason why he's been as successful as he is, and talented supporting cast doesn't necessarily answer that question. For the most part, I'd argue that he didn't have a heck of a lot of talent. I don't know how good Marvin Harrison actually was anywhere else, but with Peyton? Star. Reggie Wayne was, in my opinion, the best player he worked with his entire stint in Indy. Even our very own Pierre Garcon wasn't the same player that he is today when he had Manning throwing him the ball. Dallas Clark, to me, is the most overrated player in the last ten years. Guys have left Peyton and done next to nothing, sans Reggie Wayne. On the flipside, Peyton went to Denver and is playing at an extremely high level.

What other explanation could there be?

Film shows he makes good reads and throws the ball to receivers who he anticipates will be open. From a physcial standpoint, he's merely "good". Scheme certainly plays a part, but when you master a scheme, it doesn't matter what that scheme is, you'll be effective as long as you have baseline NFL talent to work with.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Let's wait for the man to win a couple of Super Bowls or throw for 40+ TD's before making this claim. Peyton Manning is not surrounded by a ton of talent on offense, he is making The Broncos a hell of a lot better with his ARM.

that is completely untrue.

---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 05:04 PM ----------

I can't wait until Luck hit's the playoffs and gets embarrassed and exposed in front of the world. And he's going to get both for damn sure!

why would you celebrate this?

Here you go, he being Peyton Manning, not the team, threw for 49 TD's in a single season....

RG3 is a beast and he makes The Redskins a MUCH better team, with that said, Peyton Manning does the same.

The Broncos averaged 19 points a game last season, you add Peyton Manning and all of the sudden they are averaging 29.5 points per game and they became the second highest scoring offense in the NFL.

It's a fact, if you add Peyton Manning to a team, his ability to read defensesI(individual talent), and throw the ball (individual talent) makes the team better.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gle_season.htm

the Broncos were averaging 24 points a game before Tebow became the starter.

The Broncos have A LOT of talent on offense.

---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 05:11 PM ----------

Peyton is an above average pocket passer. He has gotten excellent results because of Tom Moore's exceptional quarterback friendly scheme.

I agree with a lot of your post, but this is nonsense.

Tom Moore was offensive coordinator for the Steelers after Bradshaw left. Mark Malone sucked, and so did Bubby Brister.

Tom Moore was assistant head coach in Minnesota and Rich Gannon sucked.

Tom Moore was offensive coordinator in Detroit and Scott Mitchell sucked.

Tom Moore was offensive consultant for the Jets last season and Mark Sanchez sucked.

Tom Moore is the offensive consultant for he Titans this year and Jake Locker sucks.

Tom Moore's system did not make Peyton Manning, and Moore is no damn QB guru.

---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 05:13 PM ----------

I have felt the seem as OF about RG3's skillset from the beginning but kept wanting to pinch myself and not buy into it until it manifested in the pro game. I think it already has, even this early which so much yet to come. I have not seen anyone play like him at that position (both in current level and implied potential) and only ("desperately" is an understatement) hope he can stay healthy. If so, he will be the greatest QB to play the game in every way. Beyond that, he could well be the greatest football player ever, and rank as one of the all-time greatest athletes in any arena, ever. That's my call. I honestly (critically, not homeristically) see the ability there---the very real pot entail. Now it's a matter of seeing what happens with all the related factors, especially those beyond his control.

Ive been saying this since the 1st Giants game. If he stays healthy, and we can get him some OLine help, he is going to end up the greatest player of all time. Im legit not being homer about this either. If he was playing for the Cowboys or Saints or Colts, I would be saying the same thing. I have never seen a QB like him.