Shanahan Decision Not to Take Out RGIII

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Yall should all just shut up.

What if it comes out that RG3 guaranteed he was okay? Then yall would say "Well he had to listen to the great RG3 but it was a dumb move."

Look, we gave it a shot and we lost. THAT'S IT. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. We lost today. It sucks, but stop acting like yall know better than the coach. Shanahan is the best thing to happen to DC in a long time.

Stop being a bunch of hindsight babies. Seattle deserved the win. Let's get ready for next year with 31 other teams.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'm not sure...don't know enough about about the topic.

I will play doctor and say that he should certainly be ready to play at some point next year.

[terpfan44]

I am totally amazed that the new breed of Redskin fans possess the hubris ...to second guess what happened tonight...I know it's all in the spirit of being a fan and a great way to vent...but as fans...we should respect the job this entire organization engaged in to get us a Division Championship...things are done in Baby Steps...we are not jerks like Mike Wise who will thrive on the themes you guys submit here ...and try to tear us apart...he is a California insurgent...like Steve Czaban...those two are happy we lost...and they have juicy crap to write about...I see tonight's effort as a stab at legend making like Kirk Gibson's HR on one leg ... Leftwich being carried down the field to throw a winning TD pass or Curt Schilling's Bloody sock...RGIII thought he could do it...more went wrong tonight than his knee finally giving away

[DCthomahal]

In this same city we just went through seeing another phenom, Stephen Strasburg, be shut down for the team's stretch run and first playoff appearance in franchise history. Did he want to play? Hell yes. Did he let everyone know he wanted to pitch, yes. Did Rizzo care? No. Why? Because athletes don't always know what's best for them long-term. Do you think Stephen feels he cannot trust Davey because he backed Rizzo's decision? I think he trusts him 100%.

To me, that's a great point. You can say that's another player/team, etc. but, again, RGIII was benched to protect his knee. RECENTLY. VERY much against his will. So much so that he stated his displeasure right out in front of everyone in a press conference. I've seen him go public with only one other gripe --people not respecting his "pure passer" skills. AND it was all arm around the shoulder, playfully "crashing" Shanahan's press conference, and in no way, shape, or form being held as a grudge right after all that.

22 year old man has proven he is quite a ways above such things, if you ask me. Even if it happens in a playoff game (rightly pointed out as an even more difficult situation) it is not even close to overcoming the maturity RGIII has shown.

[emor09]

Dont blame Mike. His best player told him he could go, and the doctor's okay'ed him.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

It's easy to say "Well we should've pulled him!". We don't have perspective. We don't have information, we don't hear the player saying he can play, we can't hear a doctor on the sideline saying "he can play, but I'm not sure he should play". We don't have, basically, minutes, to make one decision---ONE---that could positively or negatively effect the entire outcome of a potential Super Bowl winning season.

It's not a decision that is to be taken lightly, which is precisely what is happening in this thread. It is the height of pure ridiculous bull**** to assume that Mike Shanahan was "scared" to bench RG3, or that he cow-towed to his stubborn rookie quarterback instead of doing what is right for him. It plays into the narrative that has been disproven time and time again---Mike Shanahan has an ego, Mike is stubborn, Mike's going to stick with his guy no matter what even when the whole world is screaming at him not to, Mike's going to do what he wants when he wants how he wants.

There is nothing inherently wrong with wondering if Kirk should have come in or not. What's wrongheaded and, quite frankly, stupid, is making assumptions about what the coach did or did not think. To be blunt; most of you mother****ers couldn't coach a dog to roll over, much less manage a football team. And yes, I realize that the previous statement makes some things I've said on this forum hypocritical, but when it comes to things like Haslett's defense, I try (and perhaps fail) to have perspective and try to figure what he was thinking, look back at historical precedents, see what other teams that run similiar systems to our have done that we could be doing with some level of success.

(And I will gladly eat crow and say these last three weeks Haslett has called his ass off, and while I'm not entirely sure I want him to stick around, I still think he deserves the opportunity to...compete for his job, shall we say.)

Remember when Philip Rivers was just the jackass who ran his mouth off all the time and had never done anything of note? And then he tore his ACL, and came back the next week and played on it, and suddenly the narrative morphed from "Philip Rivers is a bigmouthed jerk" to "Philip Rivers has guts and determination." One certainly could argue that the Chargers best chance to win the game would've been to put the back-up in, and Rivers certainly didn't play his best game. But that decision by Philip Rivers (and Norv Turner) was praised, even though they loss. (I'm aware that there was actually some blowback from this as well, which is why this is pretty much a lose-lose proposition).

Then flash forward. Remember when Cutler sprained his MCL in the NFC Championship Game? Remember how he tried to come back in and play on it, but after not being able to make a go of it, Lovie benched his (despite his protest)? And yes, Hanie had a good game until B.J Raji picked him off for a touchdown. But remember what was basically the entire narrative of that summer, about how Cutler was a wimp for not trying to play through the pain (which he did) and not trying to take a shot (which he couldn't), and how he was a ***** and couldn't hang and it was just another reason he'd never be elite?

Hell, just last night, Christian Ponder couldn't throw the ball at all with an elbow injury, and Vikings fans still bad mouthed him for not showing up and playing. Remember how Joe Webb couldn't orchestrated any sort of offense whatsoever? And this was despite the fact that in limited action, Joe Webb had actually looked like a capable back-up and a dynamic football player when Ponder had gotten hurt the year before.

People say "do what gives you the best chance to win."

Here we have three cases in which coaches did what they thought gave them the best chance to win. All three lost.

In one case, Philip Rivers could barely move, could barely plant and throw, but Norv Turner decided to keep him in the game, even though he had a healthy Charlie Whitehurst on the bench.

In another, we have Jay Cutler trying to play on a bad MCL, not being able to play as well, and ultimately getting benched by Lovie Smith even though he wanted to play. Also note that the second string quarterback was not Caleb Hanie, but Todd Collins, who promptly came into the game and sucked so bad they thought it was a better idea to put the third string guy in and leave themselves without an emergency quarterback. Hanie proceeded to play a pretty okay game, but threw what was pretty much a game ending pick six, and his quarterback was ridiculed the entire offseason for pouting on the bench.

In the last case, we have Christian Ponder trying to give it a go in practice all week, but before the game, Leslie Frazier decided not to play him at all. Ponder gets immediately criticized for not playing in the game despite literally not being able to throw the ball, and to top it off, their back-up Joe Webb comes in and sucks it up.

I introduce a new, rare idea into this discussion; sometimes, there is no right and wrong decision. Sometimes, every decision you look at sucks. Yes, Kirk had a great game versus the Browns. But he did not have such success against Atlanta. In fact, Kirk (and I say this with much love to Kirk) threw two picks in a game we could've won in that game. Kirk's half-a-game-winning-drive with RG3 versus the Ravens was aided largely by two absolute laser throws, on a bad knee, with little ability to plant, from RG3.

Those decisions are not easily made. Every possible pro and con has to be weighed, and you don't have a whole lot of time to do it. If RG3 was out there, it was because Mike thought he could play, and the trainers said he could play, and because he thought Robert gave the team the best possible chance to win. It turned out he was wrong.

Coaches in these situations, no matter what they do, always seem to be wrong. I don't mean to just cherry pick three recent examples, but as I've heard the arguments for why Mike was a buffoon to even consider letting RG3 stay in the game, I kept thinking of examples of this kind of situation, and these were the three freshest in my mind. Each coach was in a similiar position with their star quarterback injured, each coach made a different decision, and each coach ended up losing the game.

Blindly and ignorantly screaming "It doesn't matter, RG3 shouldn't have been in the game!" ignores a lot of factors, and those who say that it would've been the right decision no matter what...well, just refer to that whole "couldn't coach a dog" thing.

I know this is breaking a rule but every word of this needs to be commended.

This is the right answer right there. We're screwed either way.

You can say Cousins would have won it but in reality, he came in and struggled as well.

It was a bad situation and Seattle's D came through when it mattered

[justice98]

even with a torn ACL, can he not be ready for next season?

Well, Adrian Peterson tore his ACL a couple weeks prior last season and everyone was amazed he was ready to go full bore when the season came around.

But I don't wanna get ahead of myself, it could be nothing too terrible.

[Sticksboi05]

Hindsight is 20/20. If Shanahan had put in Kirk and we still lost, everyone would be saying he shoulda stuck with RG3, who wanted in. Give it a rest!

Not everyone is mad simply because we lost the game, it's also risking our franchise QB's long-term health.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 10:45 PM ----------

You can say Cousins would have won it but in reality, he came in and struggled as well.

It was a bad situation and Seattle's D came through when it mattered

Had he had time to warm up and not come in when we were down two possessions it would've likely been different. I don't care as much about the winning part but the long-term franchise success risk.

[PeterMP]

Yall should all just shut up.

What if it comes out that RG3 guaranteed he was okay? Then yall would say "Well he had to listen to the great RG3 but it was a dumb move."

Look, we gave it a shot and we lost. THAT'S IT. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. We lost today. It sucks, but stop acting like yall know better than the coach. Shanahan is the best thing to happen to DC in a long time.

Stop being a bunch of hindsight babies. Seattle deserved the win. Let's get ready for next year with 31 other teams.

1. This wasn't a split second decision. This wasn't RGIII goes down on a play, you have to call a time out, and right then and there you have to make a decision. There where multiple possession (not just plays) where it was clear that RGIII was having issues.

2. Not all of us are acting on 20/20 hindsight. Somebody already indicated that people were saying in the game day thread. Now, I haven't seen the game day thread and wasn't on during the game, but in the 3rd quarter when it was still 14-13, I was saying that he had to come out.

Now, I will fully admit, we might have still lost, but I do and did think we would have had a better chance.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Not everyone is mad simply because we lost the game, it's also risking our franchise QB's long-term health.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 10:45 PM ----------



Had he had time to warm up and not come in when we were down two possessions it would've likely been different. I don't care as much about the winning part but the long-term franchise success risk.

Oh please. Maybe not you, but 99% of this board would've been loving it if RG3 stayed in and we won. It baffles me how yall can't see the other side of this. If we would have won and RG3 missed the playoffs, everyone would be okay with the decision. Stop using hindsight to criticize It isn't fair to RG3, Cousins, and the coaching staff.

[PeterMP]

I know this is breaking a rule but every word of this needs to be commended.

This is the right answer right there. We're screwed either way.

You can say Cousins would have won it but in reality, he came in and struggled as well.

It was a bad situation and Seattle's D came through when it mattered

He came in and struggled when you were down 24-14 at the end of the 4th quarter. A LOT of even REALLY REALLY good QBs can struggle in those circumstances.

That doesn't mean he couldn't have done enough at 14-13 to win the game.

It is a COMPLETELY different game at 14-13 in the 3rd quarter than 24-14 at the end of the 4th.

[skinzwiz]

Not everyone is mad simply because we lost the game, it's also risking our franchise QB's long-term health.

---------- Post added January-6th-2013 at 10:45 PM ----------



Had he had time to warm up and not come in when we were down two possessions it would've likely been different. I don't care as much about the winning part but the long-term franchise success risk.

This is a good point too. I don't understand why RGIII wasn't taken out. His leg was clearly affecting his running and throwing. To his defense the WRs dropped some passes that could have kept drives alive.

Also did everyone see that play where Garçon beat Browner by like 25 yards, but RGIII wasn't looking to that side....dude was jus off today. I'm mostly upset at Shanahan, but RGIII should have been thoughtful enough to excuse himself from the game knowing he couldn't be effective.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Had he had time to warm up and not come in when we were down two possessions it would've likely been different. I don't care as much about the winning part but the long-term franchise success risk.

John Keim said had been warming up since the beginning of the second half I believe.

I don't get why a lot of ppl assumed that Cousins would just come in and beast out on Seattle



I just personally feel that this isn't so black and white. It's a gray area.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

1. This wasn't a split second decision. This wasn't RGIII goes down on a play, you have to call a time out, and right then and there you have to make a decision. There where multiple possession (not just plays) where it was clear that RGIII was having issues.

2. Not all of us are acting on 20/20 hindsight. Somebody already indicated that people were saying in the game day thread. Now, I haven't seen the game day thread and wasn't on during the game, but in the 3rd quarter when it was still 14-13, I was saying that he had to come out.

Now, I will fully admit, we might have still lost, but I do and did think we would have had a better chance.

Fair point, but I disagree. Look, at the end of the day....we played an injured RG3. That's it. If the D had got a pick 6 and we won, no one would be complaining. Guaranteed. But we lost so it is Chicken Little. It's just regular ExtemeSkins. I'm not talking to you in particular but just addressing the regular crap on this board. Obviously Kirk Cousins would've led us to the Superbowl.

[Sticksboi05]

Oh please. Maybe not you, but 99% of this board would've been loving it if RG3 stayed in and we won. It baffles me how yall can't see the other side of this. If we would have won and RG3 missed the playoffs, everyone would be okay with the decision. Stop using hindsight to criticize It isn't fair to RG3, Cousins, and the coaching staff.

1. No crap, we 'd be happy if we won...

2. Some of us said during the first half he should be taken out so unless you had a hidden cam on all of us proving when we said enough is enough...

3. There is no way that if we had won and RGIII had say, torn his ACL, that everyone would be happy.