Shanahan Decision Not to Take Out RGIII

[ke27on]

Let's ask Mr. Owl.... The world may never know!

This is the best quote on NFL.com that I saw in an article:

"Like it or not, playing through injury is part of the sport. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with football."

If he wants to play through an injury that is one thing. But playing through an injury which makes him clearly ineffective and a shell of himself is another thing. This isn't curt schilling and the bloody sock. The equivalent would be if schilling went out there and got lit up inning after inning and they left him in there. He was NOT playing effectively. And because he was injured and not playing effectively that is why he should have been taken out. He didnt get hurt late in the game and simply try to gut out a series or two. Series after series after series it was clear he was ineffective and too hurt to play properly. We have a backup for a reason.

I don't have any problem with a guy trying to play through pain for his team. I have a problem with a guy that can't play properly being left in when there is a healthy guy behind him that can at least make throws that the starter no longer can make due to injury

[Rufus T Firefly]

Each playcall changes the dynamic of the following playcalls.
A positive gain on 1st down yields different playcalls then a incomplete pass on 1st down.

That's nice, but it doesn't have anything to do with anything. They tried to run, it didn't work that well. The argument about running more boils down to saying one or two more runs were the difference in the game.

[Stadium-Armory]

From the beginning of the 2nd quarter to the Seattle touchdown that put them ahead, we ran the ball on exactly half of our 1st and 2nd down plays. You could argue it should have been more, but then you're really suggesting that one or two more runs would have had some major impact on the course of the game.

Good to know. My comment was based on 1/2 drunk recollection and not on actual fact. Thank you.

[Bang]

So you seriously believe that Cousins would not have given us a better chance to win over the last three quarters of the game?

I seriously believe it doesn't matter.
i don't think Cousins could have won the game.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-7th-2013 at 11:21 PM ----------

He doesn't. These illogical arguments are IMO are just examples of true believers (aka "real fans") backing their church and nothing you say is going to push them off their chosen position that Shanahan was right... because he's the coach of the Redskins. If Andy Reid had done this and a Eagles QB had suffered for it we'd hear all about how he's a dumb fat walrus that should be fired and hung until dead from the stadium lights.

If it were only so easy.

see, there's these other guys,, they are called Defense, and they get to have a say in how it goes.
And I think that regardless of how you'd like to paint it of me being a blind homer or whatever,. i don't think cousins is getting it done no matter when he is inserted into the game.
I think the Seahawks would have eaten him alive.
there are a lot of factors in why i think what I do, but none of them are "Yummy, this kool-aid is delicious".

The result of the game would have been the same, IMO, and the main thing to second guess now is over the severity of the injury, which no one can ever convince me they could ever see coming on such a fluke play.

~Bang

[Burgold]

It's the essence of sports. It's really rare to pull the starting quarterback unless the game is way out of hand or they are knocked out of commission. Think Doug Williams in the 87 Superbowl, he was knocked loopy and injured and said himself if Jay Schroeder wasn't his back up (whom he despised) he would have never stayed in the game.

In hindsight you pull him, but in the moment you almost never do. It's sports.

[RED06]

Some people seriously are wasting their time trying to reason or have a logical debate with some of these people on ES. Where was all these negative critical comments about RG3 or Shannahan after the Dallas or Philly game? Listen, Bret Farve was considered a "mans MAN" for playing through injuries. Big Ben played through dang near a broken ankle. Ronnie Lott had his finger removed and went back in the game, Steve Young (concussions) Doug Williams etc etc etc the list goes on and on. This kind of toughness has been displayed in the league for years. I don't understand why ALL of sudden what RG3 did is so "NEW".

I admire what he did because it shows the level of competiveness that he posses. It also showed his team what they have in a "LEADER"........ EVERYONE knows the captain goes down with the ship. But you go down fighting to save the ship at ALL cost. Some of you guys are wasting your time trying to get some of the ES'rs to understand that. If it was reversed and we won, this board would be gushing over RG3 toughness etc etc etc etc. It's a NO WIN argument so why have it? LOL My 2 cent.

[darrelgreenie]

That's nice, but it doesn't have anything to do with anything. They tried to run, it didn't work that well. The argument about running more boils down to saying one or two more runs were the difference in the game.

Its more then nice its the truth. And they didn't try to run it enough otherwise there would have been more attempts. And yes more runs could have changed the dynamic of the game because every playcall has an effect on the following playcalls.

[PeterMP]

I seriously believe it doesn't matter.
i don't think Cousins could have won the game.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-7th-2013 at 11:21 PM ----------



If it were only so easy.

see, there's these other guys,, they are called Defense, and they get to have a say in how it goes.
And I think that regardless of how you'd like to paint it of me being a blind homer or whatever,. i don't think cousins is getting it done no matter when he is inserted into the game.
I think the Seahawks would have eaten him alive.
there are a lot of factors in why i think what I do, but none of them are "Yummy, this kool-aid is delicious".

The result of the game would have been the same, IMO, and the main thing to second guess now is over the severity of the injury, which no one can ever convince me they could ever see coming on such a fluke play.

~Bang

What were they doing to RGIII then?

As has already been pointed out, KC had more yards passing on two passes then RGIII had in all of the 3rd and the part of 4th quarter he did play (which was more than half).

And that's despite coming into the game late in the 4th quarter down by 10 points.

We didn't lose the game by much to suggest with any certainity that KC wouldn't have played a LITTLE bit better up 14-13 through a quarter and half than RGIII did with the injury is belief w/o any evidence and an illogical argument (not logical as in not based on evidence).

[Veretax]

I don't blame anyone for the loss, we were clearly out played for three quarters... I do blame Shanahan for keeping RGIII in as long as he did, but by blame, I mean he's the ultimate person responsible, not that oh we should fire the guy. We did very well this year with some new cogs, and I'm happy with how we achieved. Let's hope we can maintain this level next year.

[-JB-]

Basically all of you are saying that RG3 is worthless if he can't run. His rep is that he's a passing QB that is capable of running, as opposed to a guy like Vick. No it wasn't pretty, but where's the Willis Reed vibe? A couple of catches here in there and better field position, a seahawk lineman tackling Morris with his ass and this game could be different.

We're saying that the injury severely impacted his ability to throw accurate passes!

[drone007]

it's absolutely unacceptable that no one stood up and kept RGIII out of the game after seeing how affected his throws were and the fact that HE COULDN'T STAND WITHOUT WOBBLING. He almost fell over at the huddle at one point... I saw this on TV and you would hope that someone on the sideline would've seen that, since he is the face of the franchise.

It's an outright lie to say that he had a better chance than Cousins to win the game. Cousins would've had a 14-0 cushion and at the time, Morris was running all over Seattle. Cousins also effectively ran bootlegs during his single win.

And conversely, even if Cousins was totally unprepared to win, it scared me enough instantly when RGIII limped after his first run to the point where you have to save a guy's career before insisting on fighting for that one game. If the team can only win because RGIII is healthy, is this team really any good?

[mojo]

We're saying that the injury severely impacted his ability to throw accurate passes!

Yep. When I saw him underthrow that deep ball for the pick, I knew he was done. That was the 1st underthrow on a deep pass I had seen all year.

[-JB-]

I seriously believe it doesn't matter.
i don't think Cousins could have won the game.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-7th-2013 at 11:21 PM ----------



If it were only so easy.

see, there's these other guys,, they are called Defense, and they get to have a say in how it goes.
And I think that regardless of how you'd like to paint it of me being a blind homer or whatever,. i don't think cousins is getting it done no matter when he is inserted into the game.
I think the Seahawks would have eaten him alive.
there are a lot of factors in why i think what I do, but none of them are "Yummy, this kool-aid is delicious".

The result of the game would have been the same, IMO, and the main thing to second guess now is over the severity of the injury, which no one can ever convince me they could ever see coming on such a fluke play.

~Bang

RG3 is apparently susceptible to "fluke" injuries. Why risk it? Why play him @ 50%? Isnt his health for the future our primary concern? Even if Cousins loses the game arent we better off with Griffin not having an ACL injury? Or further injuring the knee by playing on an already jacked knee? What the hell?

[Diss]

It's the essence of sports. It's really rare to pull the starting quarterback unless the game is way out of hand or they are knocked out of commission. Think Doug Williams in the 87 Superbowl, he was knocked loopy and injured and said himself if Jay Schroeder wasn't his back up (whom he despised) he would have never stayed in the game.

In hindsight you pull him, but in the moment you almost never do. It's sports.

The problem with that analogy is that Williams' tweaked knee and his subsequent performance happened in the same game, and he was lighting it up within a few plays of that injury. I can guarantee you that if he'd continued limping, was throwing the ball poorly and the offense was totally stagnant, Gibbs would've made the change by the second half.

With RG3, we've had a few weeks to see the effect of his initial injury. We've seen him in that brace for each game and seen how it's affected his mobility. I think everyone would agree that his recovery was going slower than expected. I talked to someone associated with the team the week after the Cleveland game who said that he should be 100 percent by the next game. Obviously they didn't know what they were talking about.

My point is, we knew already going into the game that he was dealing with a lingering issue. So when he got injured again in the first quarter and started limping, you weren't just thinking about that limp, you were also thinking about all the previous weeks and what could be new damage to an existing injury.

Then you have another quarter and a half to see that he wasn't throwing well, he wasn't moving well, and that the Seahawks realized all they had to do was stack the box to pretty much neutralize our entire offense.

It's not a matter of saying, "Hey, Cousins will win this for us." It's a matter of "We can't let RG3 do any further damage to himself for the sake of the franchise, and it's clear that he's useless out there, so Cousins is a better option not only in the short term but to help preserve the long term."

Beyond the second half, the decision to leave him in there was/is indefensibly moronic.

[TheGloryDays]

Shanahan's decision not to shut down RG3 was absurd. He couldn't run, he couldn't plant, and he could barely stand in the huddle. He was not our best chance to win that game, and the coach needed to recognize that.