The Long-term Problem with Robert Griffin's Knees

[ConnSKINS26]

This whole situation really makes me sad but this comment really made me laugh out loud.

Are there examples of people who have come back and played at a high level after 2 ACL injuries?

Frank Gore is one off the top of my head.

[Captain Injury]

Most of the content for treating faulty patterns like that isn't complicated, it's just not super-well known and it takes more skill in the application than it does in the theory. Two trainers who have read the same material don't diangose the same way or apply the same way, or communicate and relate to the athlete the same way. You can have the cure for cancer and a guy might not work for YOU, regardless of your knowledge. Same as coaching. Same as teaching. Some trainers have great theory. Some trainers are great teachers. Some are both.

[pointyfootball]

It would be interesting to know what specific strengthening drills (such as high intensity plyometrics) the team currently does to help prevent such injuries.

Many youth teams in sports where there is a lot of lateral movement, such as soccer and field hockey, have introduced them and, anecdotally at least, the drop in knee injuries has been significant.

This is the program I have used: http://smsmf.org/files/PEP_Program_04122011.pdf

I use that same program religiously with my U-15 boys soccer team, with good results so far. However I believe it's intended more for non-contact acl injury prevention. I wonder if the ravens game injury weakened his knee to such an extent that it was susceptible to further injury, despite MS insisting otherwise.

I've torn both acl's and had to have DeNovo cartilage transplant...feel for what he is getting ready to go thru.

[Corcaigh]

I guess it depends what you believe.

The evidence from the photo suggests that RG IIi has a significant strength imbalance issue with his knees. We also heard repeatedly that his injury would not be made worse by playing, suggesting that the non-contact injury he suffered on Sunday trying to recover the fumble wasn't related to the Ravens game.

[Timmy Smith]

Frank Gore is one off the top of my head.

Gore came back, but he never had the same burst of speed. I will never question Griffin's resolve and I know he will put everything he has into his rehab, but it's cruel for us to expect him to have the same speed in the future that he had this year. He will need to become a pocket passer. And that's sad, because with his speed, he was the most perfect QB prospect the NFL had ever seen.

[Laron Burgundy]

Which IMO is how he should play. Unless a lane is wide open for green grass (even then see opposing player SLIDE). Out-of-bounds or get down. Two options. Option zero is getting tackled lol.

Basically along the lines of how Wilson played. Wilson seemed to have little luck getting to the perimeter on our d, but if the middle of our defense opened up, he was gone. Rg3 is a smart player and this may, more or less, have been a freak injury. He probably should have sat the rest of the year after it, as he clearly was not healthy afterwards, but I think the play time did teach him important lessons, when he played hurt he was a lot more cautious on runs. If he had the explosiveness at the start of year, but played as cautiously as he did the past 3 games, he likely never would have gotten hurt but would have still been a big time contributor off read option or scrambles.

[Captain Injury]

@Corcaigh: The body uses proprioception to gleen information about it's environment through the limbs and systems. Limb ligaments are part of that communication system. Think of them as words in a sentence. When one of them is missing, the body can often get the picture, but it's harder, and easier to screw up. That's part of them problem with ACL recovery in general. The new ACL is functional, but essentially fake at worst, or at best, different. The body has to relearn that communication with different or lesser parts. So if the LCL was damaged, yeah it could affect the knee elsewhere.

[pointyfootball]

I guess it depends what you believe.

The evidence from the photo suggests that RG IIi has a significant strength imbalance issue with his knees. We also heard repeatedly that his injury would not be made worse by playing, suggesting that the non-contact injury he suffered on Sunday trying to recover the fumble wasn't related to the Ravens game.

I never believed that. If a joint is weakened, it isn't as strong and then can be injured again, if not worse.

[Laron Burgundy]

Gore came back, but he never had the same burst of speed. I will never question Griffin's resolve and I know he will put everything he has into his rehab, but it's cruel for us to expect him to have the same speed in the future that he had this year. He will need to become a pocket passer. And that's sad, because with his speed, he was the most perfect QB prospect the NFL had ever seen.

Peterson is easily as fast this year as he has been in the past. Griffin had a completely torn ACL in college and still ran in the 4.3 range. I don't think his speed will diminish greatly once he has recovered, but even if he is slightly slower he'll be better than what we've seen the previous 3 weeks when he could barely run, let alone plant and redirect to avoid tacklers. Like I've said, if he plays as cautiously as he has the last 3 games, but has any degree of mobility, he'll pick up some first downs for us and remain healthy the whole year.

[HogNose]

@Corcaigh: The body uses proprioception to gleen information about it's environment through the limbs and systems. Limb ligaments are part of that communication system. Think of them as words in a sentence. When one of them is missing, the body can often get the picture, but it's harder, and easier to screw up. That's part of them problem with ACL recovery in general. The new ACL is functional, but essentially fake at worst, or at best, different. The body has to relearn that communication with different or lesser parts. So if the LCL was damaged, yeah it could affect the knee elsewhere.

Great thread and thank you for sharing your thoughts. I seriously hope this thread gets into the right hands at Redskins Park. Very interesting.

[Highway66]

nice write up... What are your thoughts about the MRI is inconclusive. I dont believe that for a minute. Old Injury? is it torn or not? I find it hard to believe that the old injury makes it difficult to read. I think they know there is damage and surgery is imminent. they just refuse to say.

I am a strength and conditioning specialist. My subspecialty is injury prevention, and my focus within that is knees. This is my takeaway from watching Griffin this year. It's a good/bad scenario.

Robert Griffin has a movement issue that causes dynamic valgus stress in both knees. You could see it clearly in the strip fumble earlier in the season when he went down on both knees. You can see it clearly in his SUBWAY training commercial when he does the vertical jump.

What happens is that when his knee bends, through some weakness in the hip, or anatomical pattern, or ligamentous laxity, or pronation at the ankle or some combination of factors, the knee drifts inwards of the hip and foot. I.E. His final fall. This causes repeatd MCL/ACL stress and is a mess to deal with.

The good that will come of this, if there are any competent trainers in the Washington stable, is that the recovery from those ligament injuries will introduce him to the necessary stability exercises he should have been doing before. If this is not obsessively addressed, however, he will continue to have problems with his knees.

[Captain Injury]

nice write up... What are your thoughts about the MRI is inconclusive. I dont believe that for a minute. Old Injury? is it torn or not? I find it hard to believe that the old injury makes it difficult to read. I think they know there is damage and surgery is imminent. they just refuse to say.

Honestly, both can be true. The MRI can be inconclusive and the scope can reveal necessary reconstructive action.

[Travdaskin]

Basically along the lines of how Wilson played. Wilson seemed to have little luck getting to the perimeter on our d, but if the middle of our defense opened up, he was gone. Rg3 is a smart player and this may, more or less, have been a freak injury. He probably should have sat the rest of the year after it, as he clearly was not healthy afterwards, but I think the play time did teach him important lessons, when he played hurt he was a lot more cautious on runs. If he had the explosiveness at the start of year, but played as cautiously as he did the past 3 games, he likely never would have gotten hurt but would have still been a big time contributor off read option or scrambles.

No doubt it was a freak injury. The concussion earlier in the season though was not. 9/10 he gets hit on that Ngata play and perhaps gets up slow but is otherwise just really sore the day after. I agree with you that if he took the somewhat cautious style he displayed the last 3 games (especially the Dallas game someone has a sig of him diving face first which is also better then getting smacked) with him the first 12 he would not have missed any games at all. He still can run the option even now coming from his surgery, most of those option plays the first 5 yards or so are WIDE open. When he sees a big ass defender coming for him get the **** outta dodge. Toughness is fine and dandy but I'd rather be a ***** and healthy 16 games then a warrior and play 10. That hurts my team. If he does adjust his game more he will have a long career just like any other non running QB.



ANYTHING regarding getting to the ground is better then what occurred on this play.

[Corcaigh]

I never believed that. If a joint is weakened, it isn't as strong and then can be injured again, if not worse.

Agreed, especially when the injury is such where you are changing your form significantly and creating new stresses elsewhere. Once RG III was limping it was past time to get him out.

[TheTotalPackage]

I am a strength and conditioning specialist. My subspecialty is injury prevention, and my focus within that is knees. This is my takeaway from watching Griffin this year. It's a good/bad scenario.

Robert Griffin has a movement issue that causes dynamic valgus stress in both knees. You could see it clearly in the strip fumble earlier in the season when he went down on both knees. You can see it clearly in his SUBWAY training commercial when he does the vertical jump.

What happens is that when his knee bends, through some weakness in the hip, or anatomical pattern, or ligamentous laxity, or pronation at the ankle or some combination of factors, the knee drifts inwards of the hip and foot. I.E. His final fall. This causes repeatd MCL/ACL stress and is a mess to deal with.

The good that will come of this, if there are any competent trainers in the Washington stable, is that the recovery from those ligament injuries will introduce him to the necessary stability exercises he should have been doing before. If this is not obsessively addressed, however, he will continue to have problems with his knees.

Just say he is knock kneed. Lay terminology.

I would suggest the following.
Prolotherapy to ensure ligaments are strong.
Training of his VMO and VL (heck...all the quads) to ensure proper tracking.
Stregnthening of TFL and gluteus medius....these may be weak in comparison to other muscle groups.
Fitting of orthotic insoles to correct any pronation.
Muscle reeducation of his intrinsic foot muscles so that he can better form a natural arch.