WP: Stephen Strasburg and Robert Griffin III: The inevitable and cloying comparison

[SkinsHokieFan]

A comparison I had been thinking about also and how 2 different situations were handled.

As Kilgore says, perhaps Rizzo will gain some sympathy for "overprotecting" his franchise player.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ng-comparison/

Stephen Strasburg and Robert Griffin III: The inevitable and cloying comparison

Someday, maybe, for the sake of Washington’s psyche and will to consume sporting events, a local team’s playoff run will end without a disastrous collapse, a funereal home stadium and, most cutting of all, a franchise player on the sideline with a scrutinized ligament, reduced from a generational talent catalyzing a giddily fun regular season to a debate from Sports Radio Hell waiting to happen.

The comparison is as cloying as it is inevitable. The Redskins decided to play Robert Griffin III even though he was injured, clearly diminished. The Nationals decided to shut down Stephen Strasburg even though he was healthy, possibly fine. We do not know how badly Griffin is hurt, but the grotesque bend of his leg in the fourth quarter is enough to presume it is not good. We do not know what will come of Strasburg’s right elbow, but he will arrive at spring training – just six weeks away! – with a clean bill of health. One franchise pillar is questionable. One is unharmed.

Is the comparison relevant? In some ways, it is not. The circumstances were too different. Griffin came into today’s loss with at least a first-degree strain of his LCL, and he visibly hurt it worse on that first quarter run when he tumbled out of bounds. Strasburg had a prescribed innings limit two years after major surgery, and despite two shaky starts in late summer there existed a clear possibility he COULD HAVE kept pitching and not done any long-term damage.

Link for rest

[TimFolk]

I dont think RG & SS really compare. SS had TJ while he was a member of the Nationals. And recovered from it and then was put on the innnings limit. RG tore the ACL at Baylor. I think John Wall's situation is more comparable. Both sprained knees one played the other sat to prevent further injury. (Its all depressing btw)

[Oldfan]

Games are usually won by the more intelligent decision makers. Rizzo's teams will probably win championships. Shanahan's teams probably will not. That's because Rizzo is making smarter long term decisions.

Rizzo did not consult Strasburg. Shanahan says his decision was influenced by RG3. Players should not be allowed to decide these issues. Players are young men whose pride will not allow them to quit, even when quitting is the smartest thing to do for themselves and for their teams. The old saying "Pride goeth before a fall" applies.

As a general rule, coaches are an insecure lot prone to making decisions that will benefit them in the short term. As a GM, Rizzo had the support of the Lerners in shutting Strasburg down because they understood that, with the long term considered, not shutting him down was a long term risk not worth taking. In the Redskins chain of command, GM Shanahan is ineffective in controlling the short term decision making of Coach Shanahan.

Moreover, Dan Snyder, like his fanbase, has seemed unwilling to pay the price for good long term planning. Both in words and actions, the Redskins seem to believe that they can win now and build for the future at the same time. The problem with this line of thinking is that most decisions don't allow one to do both at the same time. Example: Should we play RG3 with a knee brace or shut him down until the knee heals completely? The obvious long term answer would have been to shut him down. But, Shanahan decided to play him -- and the Redskins fan base was solidly behind him.

Rizzo and the Lerners wisely didn't ask for Strasburg's opinion and they did not concern themselves with which decision would be popular with the fans. All that mattered was making the smart move because, in games, smart players are usually winners and dumb players are usually losers.

[gortiz]

Games are usually won by the more intelligent decision makers. Rizzo's teams will probably win championships. Shanahan's teams probably will not. That's because Rizzo is making smarter long term decisions.

Let's not forget that Rizzo's team also got back to back overall first round picks by virtue of being the worst team in baseball for two consecutive years. Not only that, he got, what many people can agree on, back to back once in a lifetime/can't miss prospects with those picks.

Also - there are more than a few people that say that Strasburg’s mechanics had red flags before he was even drafted, and the Nationals, failed to see this. That’s not good, if that is true.

If Shanahan got RG3 and let's say a Julio Jones/AJ Green in back to back years ... I'm sure things would have been different.

That being said, Rizzo did hit on other major decisions and is doing a great job with our team e.g. Gio

[Oldfan]

...Also - there are more than a few people that say that Strasburg’s mechanics had red flags before he was even drafted, and the Nationals, failed to see this. That’s not good, if that is true...

On such things as pitching mechanics, there is serious doubt as to how much conventional wisdom is actually true, so teams can't be expected to always get it right. However, the lesson in Strausburg v. Griffin is that the team can't possibly get the long term decision right if the long term isn't a priority.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On such things as pitching mechanics, there is serious doubt as to how much conventional wisdom is actually true, so teams can't be expected to always get it right. However, the lesson in Strausburg v. Griffin is that the team can't possibly get the long term decision right if the long term isn't a priority.

I still have a few issues with how the Nats handled that. Not necessarily the ultimate decision that they made (to shut him down) but the timing of the decision and the fact that they shared it with the public. I don't see any advantage to making a decision so early on before having all the information available. If I'm remembering correctly, it was known by all of us in April or May that Strasburg wouldn't pitch past August or September (I know it was an inning limit, but the timing was relatively easy to figure out to a reasonable degree of accuracy).

I know it sounds ridiculous to say, but the Nats might never be as well positioned to win a championship as they were last year (now watch them win it this next year ). I think you wait to decide until you figure out how he's doing medically and what the season is yielding. In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better to use him less often and get him deeper into the season and potentially have him in your rotation in October?

[WeThreeKingsRuleU]

If Shanahan got RG3 and let's say a Julio Jones/AJ Green in back to back years ... I'm sure things would have been different.

That being said, Rizzo did hit on other major decisions and is doing a great job with our team e.g. Gio

He drafted RGIII and Alfred Morris in the same year...does that count?

[Oldfan]

... I think you wait to decide until you figure out how he's doing medically and what the season is yielding. In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better to use him less often and get him deeper into the season and potentially have him in your rotation in October?

My understanding is that substantial data from prior seasons formed the basis of their decision and there wasn't going to be anything that could possibly happen during the season that could change their minds. They used Strausburg in a way that gave him a consistent routine.

It seemed to me that he was laboring in his last few starts. I took that as an indicator that their limit was just about right.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It seemed to me that he was laboring in his last few starts. I took that as an indicator that their limit was just about right.

If that's the case, then I'm glad it worked out the way it did (I don't follow the Nats, but like when they succeed). I still don't see what you have to gain by sharing your approach that far in advance.

[Oldfan]

If that's the case, then I'm glad it worked out the way it did (I don't follow the Nats, but like when they succeed). I still don't see what you have to gain by sharing your approach that far in advance.

I don't know why they did that either. Maybe they hoped it would hold back the criticism.

[DjTj]

Since both the Nats and Redskins didn't make it out of the wild card round of the playoffs, it causes a lot of second-guessing and finger-pointing. Losing does that. And winning is really the only cure. If the Nats make a deep playoff run next year, nobody will care about Strasburg being shut down early. If the Redskins make it back to the playoffs, nobody will care about whether RGIII was left in the game too long. But in the meantime, all we can really do is speculate about what could have or should have been done. It's going to be a long offseason.

[kevinklein]

I don't know much about Adam Kilgore, but I did learn one thing about him today: He doesn't know what 'cloying' means.

[Oldfan]

Since both the Nats and Redskins didn't make it out of the wild card round of the playoffs, it causes a lot of second-guessing and finger-pointing. Losing does that. And winning is really the only cure. If the Nats make a deep playoff run next year, nobody will care about Strasburg being shut down early. If the Redskins make it back to the playoffs, nobody will care about whether RGIII was left in the game too long. But in the meantime, all we can really do is speculate about what could have or should have been done. It's going to be a long offseason.

You are right about what will happen, but it shouldn't happen that way.

Decision-makers should not be judged on the outcome of their decisions since they don't have crystal balls. The question for both is should they have taken risks with the health of valuable teams assets. Since we don't have the data the Nats had to estimate probability, we have to assume they had sufficient concern to shut Strausburg down.

In RG3's case, winning the Seattle game isn't even a consideration. I thought it was dumb to put Robert back on the field if he needed a knee brace to play. Then, after he re-injured the knee in the first quarter against Seattle, it was mind-numbingly stupid to allow him to continue.

[Hitman21ST]

I thought it was dumb to put Robert back on the field if he needed a knee brace to play. Then, after he re-injured the knee in the first quarter against Seattle, it was mind-numbingly stupid to allow him to continue.

The only thing is, sometimes people (especially OL) wear the braces as a precaution, to help prevent injury.

If that was the reason RG3 was wearing it (which, in hidsight, it doesn't look like that), then I wouldn't say there is an issue with the brace being worn. However, since it appears to be that his knee was not 100%, as was claimed, then I would tent ot agree with you that it wasn't a good idea to have him out there. And I agree that he should have been taken out after tweaking it in the first quarter, for at least a drive or two to allow Dr. Andrews to look at it and give it a legit diagnosis.

[TheLongshot]

The only thing is, sometimes people (especially OL) wear the braces as a precaution, to help prevent injury.

If that was the reason RG3 was wearing it (which, in hidsight, it doesn't look like that), then I wouldn't say there is an issue with the brace being worn. However, since it appears to be that his knee was not 100%, as was claimed, then I would tent ot agree with you that it wasn't a good idea to have him out there. And I agree that he should have been taken out after tweaking it in the first quarter, for at least a drive or two to allow Dr. Andrews to look at it and give it a legit diagnosis.

No one in the NFL is 100% after the season starts, and many play with injuries. I had no problem with him starting with the brace, but there should have been a quick hook if there was a sign of a setback. Not only didn't he pull him, but also left him in there when it was obvious to everyone that he wasn't effective.

I don't think the comparison to Strasburg is valid. Strasburg was recovering from surgery, while RG3 had a less severe injury. Well, less severe until last Sunday...