2013 FA Thread (Updates on OP) New: Merling, Brace, Pashos, Trueblood, EJBig, Tapp, White, Williams, MATTHEWS; Re-up: Rex, Hall, Davis, Paulsen, DY, RJax, Lich, Sundberg, Baker, Sav, Golston, Kehl, Polumbus; Paycuts: Carriker, Moss, BMeri, J. Wilson

[acuratl1984]

Again, I don't think Hank is a bust, as a 3rd Wr he's more than fine. But I think if he really works it he can be a bonafide #1 but am gathering he might not work it enough. You hear stuff about certain players here and there ala Kirk Cousins is always studying the playbook, RG III is a relentless studier and gym rat, London studies like crazy, Santana works hard to get in shape and flew to Texas to practice with RG 3, I can go on about other players -- Hank never seems to be in that mix unless am missing it.
.

I think when the WRs went to Texas to practice with RG3, Hank was still rehabbing.

[NLC1054]

I think when the WRs went to Texas to practice with RG3, Hank was still rehabbing.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was still rehabbing too. He was slowed at the beginning of training camp because of rehab too.

Like I said; can't judge a book by it's cover.

[darrelgreenie]

My only opinion of Hankerson is that he is an unfinished product that deserves another opportunity.
At this point we just don't know.
Imo it would the FO owes it to itself to find out one way or another before making a decision on Hank.
If another WR is drafted fairly high its almost a certainity that we'll never know anything more about Hankerson because there are a finite amount of practice reps and game targets and a 2-3 round WR will vault ahead of Hankerson in the chow line.

I just wonder what is the best way to facilitate his growth? Sometimes I wonder whether the security blanket of Moss is holding the other WRs back?

[NLC1054]

I just wonder what is the best way to facilitate his growth? Sometimes I wonder whether the security blanket of Moss is holding the other WRs back?

It seems to me like Hank's NFL career might mirror his Miami career. His first two years at Miami his was a big disappointment. His last two he broke a bunch of Miami's receiving records. Not saying Hank's going to make that leap, but he might just take time.

And I don't think it's so much Moss holding him back as the nature of our offense. We sub guys in and out a lot, so no one really gets into a rhythm. It might be a bit different if he lined up on and the X or Z position 90% of the time rather than 40%. Kyle uses his personal groupings to achieve certain things on the field, so unless you can a super versatile guy like Garcon, you're kind of in a tough place.

[darrelgreenie]

And I don't think it's so much Moss holding him back as the nature of our offense. We sub guys in and out a lot, so no one really gets into a rhythm. It might be a bit different if he lined up on and the X or Z position 90% of the time rather than 40%. Kyle uses his personal groupings to achieve certain things on the field, so unless you can a super versatile guy like Garcon, you're kind of in a tough place.

No, I get that. I've actually mentioned how the platooning of WRs in a run first offense has a negative effective on their production stats of all but the #1 WR. I think many fans/media don't understand/accept this concept when they evaluate or WRs most people just look at raw numbers and don't consider the style of offense.

But, I think there is some redundancy with Moss, Hankerson and Morgan. And if one of them was gone the production of the remaining WRs would improve and it would open a roster spot. The ancillary effect of their increased production would ease fan/media perception about Hankerson, but (rightfully so) appeasing fan/media perception isn't a business Mike participates in.

[NLC1054]

No, I get that. I've actually mentioned how the platooning of WRs in a run first offense has a negative effective on their production stats of all but the #1 WR. I think many fans/media don't understand/accept this concept when they evaluate or WRs most people just look at raw numbers and don't consider the style of offense.

But, I think there is some redundancy with Moss, Hankerson and Morgan. And if one of them was gone the production of the remaining WRs would improve and it would open a roster spot. The ancillary effect of their increased production would ease fan/media perception about Hankerson, but (rightfully so) appeasing fan/media perception isn't a business Mike participates in.

True. But if Moss was gone, it'd open the question of who would play in the slot. Hank and Morgan both aren't really well suited to play in the slot. They're both big, outside receivers. Still, I can see how having Santana Moss in there would effect one or the other; seems like every time we absolutely needed to make a play, the ball was going to Moss.

[skinny21]

My only opinion of Hankerson is that he is an unfinished product that deserves another opportunity.
At this point we just don't know.
Imo it would the FO owes it to itself to find out one way or another before making a decision on Hank.
If another WR is drafted fairly high its almost a certainity that we'll never know anything more about Hankerson because there are a finite amount of practice reps and game targets and a 2-3 round WR will vault ahead of Hankerson in the chow line.

I just wonder what is the best way to facilitate his growth? Sometimes I wonder whether the security blanket of Moss is holding the other WRs back?

So, I'm in agreement with you for the most part. Not so sure about a round 2-3 WR leapfrogging Hank. A first rounder, most likely would, but as a third year, third round pick, Hank should be ahead of a rookie 2nd/3rd rounder. If he's not, and loses PT accordingly, then that means we improved the WR Corp, right?

Even if he was leapfrogged, Morgan's contract will be up and Garçon will be playing hurt again. Hank could go right back to his role as #3 (not in including the slot). This might stunt Hankerson's growth, but it shouldn't affect it drastically.

With all this said, I like how Hankerson has developed thus far and I'm hoping next year he really brings it. As far as needs go:

Tier 1:
Corner, safety, TE (Davis or other), OT, 3rd down back (Helu would be fine, but I'm not optimistic there health-wise).
Tier 2:
ILB (particularly if we lose Fletcher and/orAlexander), WR, OT (a swing tackle), NT, DE, P, OLB (unless Jackson re-signs) and corner and safety again.

[Skinsinparadise]

My only opinion of Hankerson is that he is an unfinished product that deserves another opportunity.
At this point we just don't know.
Imo it would the FO owes it to itself to find out one way or another before making a decision on Hank.
If another WR is drafted fairly high its almost a certainity that we'll never know anything more about Hankerson because there are a finite amount of practice reps and game targets and a 2-3 round WR will vault ahead of Hankerson in the chow line.

I just wonder what is the best way to facilitate his growth? Sometimes I wonder whether the security blanket of Moss is holding the other WRs back?

I'd agree with that what I wonder about Hankerson is does he have the intangibles needed to make the step from being a slightly above average receiver to a game breaker -- am not saying I got the answer to that, my hunch is no, but as a #3 WR, he's fine, and agree he deserves another year to let the movie play out. As for drafting a WR in the 2nd and third, for me it would have nothing to do with Hankerson, I'd only be in favor if a guy unexpectedly falls lets say T. Williams and they think he's a bonafide stud. Otherwise, like you, am obsessed with fixing the secondary and much prefer to go that route. I am ok with the receiving corp if Garcon and or Davis, though preferably both are on the field. I think TE is the more interesting position as opposed to WR this off season -- Davis is coming off of a major injury, not sure if Paul has developed, and Paulsen during the 2nd half of the season was mostly just a 1 to 2 catch a game guy -- and IMO its a deep TE class.

To your other point about redundancy of Moss, Morgan, Hankerson. Outside of being maybe a better blocker and IMO a better player in terms of grabbing a ball in traffic and getting some YAC, I don't see what Morgan brings the table that Hankerson can't bring. Hankerson seems faster. I gather its good to have depth but otherwise I think they could have spent their money better elsewhere in FA.

[ADF]

True. But if Moss was gone, it'd open the question of who would play in the slot. Hank and Morgan both aren't really well suited to play in the slot. They're both big, outside receivers. Still, I can see how having Santana Moss in there would effect one or the other; seems like every time we absolutely needed to make a play, the ball was going to Moss.

Yeah, It seemed like Griffin really trusted Moss. He's going to be where he is suppose to be, he runs great routes to gain separation, and he'll catch the ball. So, I think it's up to the other guys to beat him out. That's the Mike Shanahan way.

[U C S D SkinsFan]

I don't see what Morgan brings the table that Hankerson can't bring. Hankerson seems faster.

Way more consistent hands and a better run blocker. Even with that, I was surprised with the limited space we had, we went after Morgan. I hope Hankerson steps up this year..he definitely has the tools. Let's hope an entire healthy offseason helps him get to the next level.

[skinny21]

True. But if Moss was gone, it'd open the question of who would play in the slot. Hank and Morgan both aren't really well suited to play in the slot. They're both big, outside receivers. Still, I can see how having Santana Moss in there would effect one or the other; seems like every time we absolutely needed to make a play, the ball was going to Moss.

So what exactly is the issue with Robinson? Is it his route running? I had thought he might be in line to take over from Moss, but it's looking increasingly like that's not the case. Hopefully next year he makes some more strides.

In terms of replacing Moss, I kind of expect us to look to the later rounds (5+). Otherwise I think we put it off to FA/draft in 2014.

[DC9]

So what exactly is the issue with Robinson? Is it his route running? I had thought he might be in line to take over from Moss, but it's looking increasingly like that's not the case. Hopefully next year he makes some more strides.

In terms of replacing Moss, I kind of expect us to look to the later rounds (5+). Otherwise I think we put it off to FA/draft in 2014.

Don't forget, it's not always that the young kids are doing poorly. Moss is still a good football player. Leading the team in TD catches proved that.

[sjinhan]

To your other point about redundancy of Moss, Morgan, Hankerson. Outside of being maybe a better blocker and IMO a better player in terms of grabbing a ball in traffic and getting some YAC, I don't see what Morgan brings the table that Hankerson can't bring. Hankerson seems faster. I gather its good to have depth but otherwise I think they could have spent their money better elsewhere in FA.

You have to give Morgan credit that he was coming off an injury. I agree with you that he was alright but probably not worth the money we gave him. But due to his injury, I would like to see what he can bring to the table next year when he should be completely healthy.

[RWJ]

Per Rotoworld on Josh Morgan:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4919/josh-morgan

3/13/2012: Signed a two-year, $11.5 million contract. The deal contains $7.3 million guaranteed, including a $5.5 million signing bonus and Morgan's 2012 base salary. An annual $200,000 workout bonus is available in both years. 2013: $3.8 million, 2014: Free Agent


I would think the 3.8 million could be better served on a S or CB signing in FA.

[moondog]

Don't forget, it's not always that the young kids are doing poorly. Moss is still a good football player. Leading the team in TD catches proved that.

Precisely. Moss is still a very good receiver and while he's not as fast as he used to be he's a great veteran presence for the younger guys and has only gotten better at finding holes in the defense. I've come to expect him to be open on 3rd down or in the redzone. Simply put, he's still under contract and we're getting pretty good bang for our buck with him right now. Our receiving corps is a strength, in my opinion, and it would be foolish to start cutting guys to save a dollar or two that's not going to be the difference in us being able to sign a safety or not. Morgan, Moss and Hankerson are not going anywhere and shouldn't be.

I really like Robinson too, his speed is elite and I'm hoping he can develop himself into a well-rounded receiver. I'm not foolish enough to think he's some stud. If he was earning playing time over the other guys, the Shanahan's would have him out there. There is no guarantee he'll make the roster but I hope he does and I hope he develops into a solid player for us because you can't teach speed.