Sandy hook "hoax"?

[Kosher Ham]

The point people are missing is that I have not seen one person in this thread blame the government. People are questioning the situation.
The video questions the government. I am sure most people are doubting that is the case here.

[alexey]

Also, if Nazis setting fire to the Reichstag and Obama arranging a massacre of kids to advance political agendas is in the same universe of plausibility for you, you have a problem with your plausibility evaluator.

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 08:59 AM ----------

The point people are missing is that I have not seen one person in this thread blame the government. People are questioning the situation.
The video questions the government. I am sure most people are doubting that is the case here.

Its THEM.

[Bang]

I understand you don't WANT to believe that line that I bolded and underlined...but just as offended as you get that people would entertain that notion, it upsets me that people can be so blind to believe that their own government won't use and deceive it's own citizens to meet it's specific agenda. I'm just as American as you, and i respect your position on this whole thing. But there's two sides to all of it. I don't WANT to believe it any more than you do, but it won't make me any less of an American than you are, should i choose to question things that simply make no sense in situations like these.

It doesn't make me a sheep, it doesn't make me an idiot, it doesn't make me a chaos creating member of society. THAT'S offensive.

My apologies, Drop. I did not mean to personally imply those thing about you, and I'm sorry it came off that way.

Here's my thing:
We make the leap from "Land of the free" to "More monstrous than you can conceive" in a heart beat.

There are not two sides to everything.
'On one side of this is an unspeakable tragedy, an inhuman act against children.

On the other side are people who want to convince you and me that our own government did it so they can push an anti gun agenda. And the people who want you to believe this.. what's their agenda? isn't it JUST AS plausible to say well,,, the NRA did this to push an "arm everyone" agenda?
Why isn't THAT possibility explored? Based on how we've seen this particular 'theory' snowballed from a poor dad who shows a face we don't expect fro a second on the news into 'our government killed these children" , and how in this very thread we saw a snowball build against the guy who sheltered them because he "looks creepy".., the very fact that no one has explored that side is enough evidence to say that someone on that side of the debate probably started this whole thing in the first place.
See how we go down the rabbit hole?

There's one side, and on the other side is a seriously crazy idea.

of course people should ask questions.. but at some point, you have to recognize the difference between legitimately questioning authority, and buying into raving paranoia..
Recognize that every single bad event in this country in the last 12 years or so has been blamed on our own government in one way or another by the lunatic fringe. (They have a BIG voice now) we did 9/11, the gov't intentionally ignored New Orleans to kill black people with Katrina, and on and on and on. (Also recognize that in every tragedy, people will do things you cant explain. events will happen that we don't understand.)
Our government, who routinely is first in line around the world with food and aid and every other help imaginable in and during ANY crisis,.. for friend and foe alike.. this government will KILL 20 children here at home a week before Christmas to try to gather support for a gun ban.

Think about how ignorant that sounds, and then you'll understand why I get sick of this idiocy being bantered about like it has any merit. You'll understand why it angers me that there are people out there who begin these 'theories' to subvert us.
If there's one paranoid theory i DO buy into it's that theories like this one are not unintentional.. this didn't just come up from a few vigilant Americans asking questions. These things come from people with a motivation... and no matter how many reasons I can assign to why they do it, none of them are good. And IMO, it's MUCH more plausible to see that this conspiracy theory is the actual plot.. trying to convince you of another plot fro the purpose of further unraveling this country.

And lest anyone think that i simply refuse to hear anything negative blah blah blah.. there comes a point in the story when sense should kick in, and the absurdity of the conspiracy should cause it to fall apart.

And as usual whenever we discuss conspiracies, I ask those who may believe them to follow a simple test.
Ask yourself: How many people need to know?

if it's more than one.. your conspiracy is in trouble.
If it's a half dozen, it'll never work. the Truth will come out, unless one of them kills the other 5.
In a case like this.. dozens upon dozens will need to be in on it.
That's impossible. for one, human nature means someone can't keep a secret. Always. And for two, in this particular case, someone's conscience will have kicked in by now. there will be a whistle blower.. or a lot of the people involved will have disappeared, and that isn't happening. (Or, some disappear, another sees it, and fearing for his own disappearance, comes forward.. there's a thousand ways for a conspiracy to fall apart.)

Hell, there's still people who believe a missile hit the Pentagon, even though hundreds of drivers saw a plane fly over their cars and hit the building.
It's one thing to question. its entirely another to go off on wild goose chases.

Some things don't have a simple answer. And that is not proof of anything... except among the conspiracy nuts.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 02:13 PM ----------

The point people are missing is that I have not seen one person in this thread blame the government. People are questioning the situation.
The video questions the government. I am sure most people are doubting that is the case here.

This thread isn't the entirety of the conspiracy theory. the bottom line of this one is that the Gov't performed this massacre to push an anti gun agenda.
Here.. listen to a Florida Atlantic communications professor tell you.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1236230

we can't just change the dynamic of the thing to suit ourselves here. That's the theory. the gov't did it to ban guns.

~Bang

[Titaw]

This almost had me until I saw the "INFO WARS" logo. Credibility, lost.............................in the butt

[bobbi3stix]

Feel free

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 08:44 AM ----------


Here is where your logic fails.
A) Governments have done bad things
B) The government did something
C) therefore the government has done this bad thing.

My "logic" didn't fail. There has been events both in the past, as well as recent time that has made our government less than credible or downright corrupt.

You, by your own posts.. ARE what you call others.

[Bang]

My "logic" didn't fail. There has been events both in the past, as well as recent time that has made our government less than credible or downright corrupt.

You, by your own posts.. ARE what you call others.

Has our government ever done anything like murder 20 American children in a public school a week before christmas?

There's a big gap between 'our gov't isn't squeaky clean' and 'our government is a monster'.

It should not be such an easy leap to span it. it shows a lack of desire to think critically about the situation.

Use logic on what is logical. Look at it from a logical perspective.
Again, Conspiracy Question 1: how many need to know?

~Bang

[bobbi3stix]

@Bang (sorry, once again the quote function isn't working) I am kind of hoping that in that magical argument of the video being credible.. That people would argue that the government (and all the entities involved) staged the event, as in no one was ever shot...

I guess, and I chuckle as I type this... That little moon landing that people way back in the day said never happened.

[Titaw]

Oh and BTW, I believe it is time to start a "You know Osama Bin Laden isn't dead, right?" conspiracy theory. The possibilities, the tie ins to 9/11 being a hoax, the illuminati/NWO, I mean this has conspiracy written all over it.

[Kosher Ham]

But Bang, that does not mean it is not possible.
Our government holds political prisoners right now. No convictions, no trials, just in a jail cell.

And why make Christmas an issue ? What does that have to do with anything ?

Before the last bad thing our gov't did ...it had never happened either.
Again I doubt that this is the case, but to just say no is to ignore the possibilities.

[Bang]

@Bang (sorry, once again the quote function isn't working) I am kind of hoping that in that magical argument of the video being credible.. That people would argue that the government (and all the entities involved) staged the event, as in no one was ever shot...

I guess, and I chuckle as I type this... That little moon landing that people way back in the day said never happened.

OK, so lets go from that assumption that it's all a staged event, no one is dead.
Sandy Hook elementary is a real place, in a real town full of real people who have been convinced that their sons and daughters and wives and neighbors are dead, murdered in the school down the street. There's numerous witnesses. first responders saw the bodies, processed the scene.. local cops and rescue.

If it's alla hoax and no one is dead
A/ where are they? How did they get there? Underground tunnels? Aircraft landing would be spotted. A bus heading to the airport requires a driver, etc. how do you get 20 unwilling people onto an airplane with no one in town seeing you do it?
B/ it would take less people to just kill the kids and perform the event than to fake it. Faking it is a massive undertaking withv too many potential holes. And lets facer it,, if this is what is happening, any potential holes cannot exist. it has to be absolutely foolproof, or you risk tearing the entire country apart.
C/ This town is crawling with reporters who's sole function is to get info no one else has, (proven or not).. and NO one has uncovered anything to suggest it's all been faked? not one shred,, not one person who saw something weird through their blinds?
D/ there have been 2 dozen funerals. How many people need to be involved in this conspiracy now? How many local funeral directors are in on the plot, burying bags of sand?
E/ all those first responders havev to be silenced. Considering most local rescue and police do have a sense of civic pride, many of tyhem no doubt would have to be killed, because they won't go along with it. (Unless we believe they will all go along with it when presented with the plot... and none of them have had a change of heart in the last month.)

I could go on and on and on.
These "theories" prey on the weak. Sorry if that's offensive,, but there is a contingency of people ready to believe the worst at the slightest provocation.
It makes the propagandist's job very easy.
People will willingly ignore the multiple incongruities of their theory tov focus on relatively few incongruities in the actual event, all of which can be logically explained.

But Bang, that does not mean it is not possible.
Our government holds political prisoners right now. No convictions, no trials, just in a jail cell.

And why make Christmas an issue ? What does that have to do with anything ?

Before the last bad thing our gov't did ...it had never happened either.
Again I doubt that this is the case, but to just say no is to ignore the possibilities.

I don't know if I'd classify people trying to blow us up as political prisoners... but that's another box of worms.
Christmas isn't an 'issue'. Christmas was 10 days away. Time is part of the setting of any story.
As it happened, some of the first reactions were how horrible this happened so near to Christmas. That's all.
In fact, christmas plays into the conspiracy.. if the gov 't wants to shock people, what better time of year to kill children?
Monstrous. Not just dirty.. historically monstrous.

And I'm not ignoring possibilities.. i'm rejecting the idea that this was a government plot.
It doesn't pass any of the conspiracy tests.
Not even close.

~Bang

[The Evil Genius]

Why would the father of (almost) two teenage girls want to massacre American children?..unless, you know, he's Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

ols

I really wish the S&M clown avatar would be resurrected for threads like these.

[mboyd784]

Oh and BTW, I believe it is time to start a "You know Osama Bin Laden isn't dead, right?" conspiracy theory. The possibilities, the tie ins to 9/11 being a hoax, the illuminati/NWO, I mean this has conspiracy written all over it.

Far, far more likely that he died sometime in the early-mid 2000's. And then there's this...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7jZjHlB9fmY1bP

The deadliest incident of the entire Afghan war just happens to involve the same team that took out Bin Laden only three months later. Very neat, very clean.

[Titaw]

Far, far more likely that he died sometime in the early-mid 2000's. And then there's this...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7jZjHlB9fmY1bP

The deadliest incident of the entire Afghan war just happens to involve the same team that took out Bin Laden only three months later. Very neat, very clean.

Meh, they weren't involved in the raid that "killed Bin Laden.

[No Excuses]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...7jZjHlB9fmY1bP

The deadliest incident of the entire Afghan war just happens to involve the same team that took out Bin Laden only three months later. Very neat, very clean.

Don't let facts get in the way of your "conspiracies".

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...ash/index.html

The majority of the Navy SEALs who died belonged to the same covert unit that conducted the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in May, though they were not the same men, the military official said.

[SkinsWarrior81]

Jesus ... it amazes me the vitriol people have for others who may present a position just outside their specific worldview.

I think the media misrepresented the events of that day and have not atoned for the misinformation that was reported. I do find it to be quite convenient that these details are still fuzzy, but are the driving force behind a nationwide political agenda for gun control. Do I think the government went and massacred a bunch of children over it? I sure as hell hope not. Reason would tell me no. Does it make me a coward, a moron, or an idiot for considering the possibility of it? I think it makes me an American to consider that possibility. I worked on a nuclear weapon base. if you have some misconception that the government actually values human life, you forget how many nuclear weapons we have and what they can do.

It is telling to me regarding the insane hatred that even the slightest questioning of an official story can generate. Some of you act as if this country has never done anything terrible. Watching that video is not going to burn the world to the ground. If you choose to believe it, then do some more research and find out the truth for yourself.

Personally, I would like to see the police reports.