Yahoo/AP: NY seals 1st state gun laws since Newtown massacre

[MattFancy]

Someone who wants to commit mass murder will find a way to get these weapons,either through a relative or a neighbor, or stealing. This law punishes the law abiding. If criminals followed the law, then they wouldn't be criminals. What do they care if the are breaking the law in a gun free school zone with a ten round clip if they want to kill people? This is just a feel good law.

Someone who wants to drive drunk will find a way to drive drunk. The law punishes the law abiding. If the criminals followed the law, then they wouldn't be criminals. Why do they care if they are breaking the law in a drug free school zone if they want to drive drunk. This is just a feel good law.


See what I did there?

[chasefan31]

Under the new NY state laws I would have to sell 9 of my 11 hunting guns, none of which are Armalite Rifles. The only guns I can think of that would have 7 or less capacity would be shotguns, and ultra compacts. Most species I hunt are illegal to shoot with a shotgun, or barrel less than 4" long, leaving me only a muzzleloader and bow. Even then, it's illegal to shoot any furbearer with a shotgun, and illegal to shoot most species with a bow. Basically, there would be very limited hunting, with decreased success rates. Some species populations would soar into disasterous levels, and most likely be nearly wiped out by disease, causing massive government spending to thin out the herd. Oh well, at least the criminals will follow all the same laws that I have to. The laws against murdering someone, or carrying into gun free zones sure seem to be working, so I'm sure criminals will heed this one as well.

[SkinsWarrior81]

I am sure the NRA and other organizations will challenge the legality of the law, but I doubt that it will go anywhere. The plaintiffs specifically decided not to challenge the registration requirement in DC in Heller.

What type of law do you think would actually address the gun violence problem? I think that legislators are just trying to do what they can within the Constitutional limits.

I actually am not sure what specific law would cause an immediate drop in gun violence. Gun violence is already illegal, etc. One measure that I was thinking was to enact a 10% purchase price tax o every new firearm bought from a licensed dealer. The moneys would go to compulsory classes on safety and training on that specific weapon for the first time buyers. the buyer would not be able to receive their firearm until such a time that an evaluation on proficiency could be made by the licensed dealer, whom could instruct the class at that time or at a later date and hold the weapon for the buyer.

I would make the class free for all previous gun owners to take.

I would also loosen drug laws / end the war on drugs. A lot of violent crime stems from the perceived value of drugs... without that value.. there is not much reason to fight. (That is my logic at any rate).

[Larry]

So, does anybody think that their restrictions on magazine capacity will have any effect at all, other than being a massive PITA for current owners? (And, maybe, some money for the manufacturers of special, "NY only" magazines?)

[AsburySkinsFan]

So, does anybody think that their restrictions on magazine capacity will have any effect at all, other than being a massive PITA for current owners? (And, maybe, some money for the manufacturers of special, "NY only" magazines?)

Not sure, but I know that the three round max cap in my 12 gauge slows me down. BTW, a magazine can be easily modified to accept fewer rounds, in the exact same way my shotgun is modified.

[Stugein]

Someone who wants to drive drunk will find a way to drive drunk. The law punishes the law abiding. If the criminals followed the law, then they wouldn't be criminals. Why do they care if they are breaking the law in a drug free school zone if they want to drive drunk. This is just a feel good law.

See what I did there?

Bad example? The action (murder/drunk driving) is already outlawed. This is just further restricting the implements. This is akin to saying that a person who is otherwise legally allowed to purchase alcohol and drink is only allowed to purchase certain kinds of liqour, or can only purchase two cans of beer at a time for personal use, etc. because some people might abuse alcohol and get in a car.

[chasefan31]

I'm not sure how you think educating someone on how to use their weapon properly would decrease the chances of them using it to inflict harm. I do agree that lowering the value of contraband would make a huge difference in crime rates, although I'm not sure it relates to mass shootings.
I do feel that the school related shootings are partly due to public schools having unhealthy students forced onto them. 20 years ago, you wouldn't have seen a lot of these types of students in the classroom setting. The "no child left behind" and other similar programs have taken unstable children who have special needs out of group homes, and special schools and put them into special ed programs and general classrooms of public schools all across the nation. Many of these schools are not equipped to deal with the special care of such individuals, and some of the students would lead a much happier, more productive life if they were given the special care we once determined they needed.

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 02:47 PM ----------

Not sure, but I know that the three round max cap in my 12 gauge slows me down. BTW, a magazine can be easily modified to accept fewer rounds, in the exact same way my shotgun is modified.

Are you saying sticking a wooden dowel or similar plug in the magazine would make it legal? I am a little unclear on the wording of what is and isn't going to be accepted as legal.

[MattFancy]

Bad example? The action (murder/drunk driving) is already outlawed. This is just further restricting the implements. This is akin to saying that a person who is otherwise legally allowed to purchase alcohol and drink is only allowed to purchase certain kinds of liqour, or can only purchase two cans of beer at a time for personal use, etc. because some people might abuse alcohol and get in a car.

But some alcohol is banned. Pretty sure moonshine is illegal. And what about those people who are at the .08 limit, but can still function perfectly fine?

[Sikbug]

It's weird, because, I live in NY state, but I live in NYC, which is a whole different world. Guns are pretty much fully banned in NYC anyway, so even though I am a resident of NY state, this has no effect on me. Bans like this won't really make a huge difference unless it's nation wide imo.

[Mad Mike]

Wouldn't a spacer be used in the bottom of the magazine to limit the amount of ammo?

I somehow doubt that a spacer (which could be removed) is going to satisfy the requirements of this law.

[DjTj]

Bad example? The action (murder/drunk driving) is already outlawed. This is just further restricting the implements. This is akin to saying that a person who is otherwise legally allowed to purchase alcohol and drink is only allowed to purchase certain kinds of liqour, or can only purchase two cans of beer at a time for personal use, etc. because some people might abuse alcohol and get in a car.

Actually, our alcohol laws are a lot like that. In some states, you can't buy alcohol on Sundays or after 2AM. Some ban liquor from grocery stores. Sometimes you can only liquor from state-controlled stores. There are regulations on the sizes of bottles, and on the alcohol content of beer or wine. There are open container laws that apply to drivers, passengers, or pedestrians.

If anything, alcohol is far more regulated than guns. We have a lot of rules about alcohol that punish good citizens who are just out for a good time because some people abuse alcohol and are a danger to others.

[SkinsWarrior81]

I'm not sure how you think educating someone on how to use their weapon properly would decrease the chances of them using it to inflict harm. I do agree that lowering the value of contraband would make a huge difference in crime rates, although I'm not sure it relates to mass shootings.
I do feel that the school related shootings are partly due to public schools having unhealthy students forced onto them. 20 years ago, you wouldn't have seen a lot of these types of students in the classroom setting. The "no child left behind" and other similar programs have taken unstable children who have special needs out of group homes, and special schools and put them into special ed programs and general classrooms of public schools all across the nation. Many of these schools are not equipped to deal with the special care of such individuals, and some of the students would lead a much happier, more productive life if they were given the special care we once determined they needed.

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 02:47 PM ----------

Are you saying sticking a wooden dowel or similar plug in the magazine would make it legal? I am a little unclear on the wording of what is and isn't going to be accepted as legal.

I think the idea is that with a better educated society, you reduce accidental gun death and you bring younger people more up to snuff on gun safety and responsibility. Obviously that is not a short term answer to a hysteria over mass shootings. However, mass shootings are not really even relevant when you are trying to discuss reduction in overall gun crime. The overwhelming majority of gun crime is committed with illegal hand guns. The problem is a cultural one, not something that is just going to go away because NY passed a law one day. the answers are long term.. in one way you may have more freedom in the end and with the other way, you won't.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Are you saying sticking a wooden dowel or similar plug in the magazine would make it legal? I am a little unclear on the wording of what is and isn't going to be accepted as legal.

Dunno what they have in mind, I'm not a NY legislator, but magazines can be permanently modified, and or sold new that restrict the number of rounds in handguns that require magazines to fire. My shotgun came with a factory plug, it can be removed but if I did and was caught I'd lose my shotgun on the spot.

---------- Post added January-15th-2013 at 03:56 PM ----------

I somehow doubt that a spacer (which could be removed) is going to satisfy the requirements of this law.

Factory spacers can be permanent.

[chasefan31]

I feel bad for the upstate rural New Yorkers who are overlooked and outnumbered by the masses in their representation. I wonder how many thousands of rounds you could buy and shoot at the range before you get a knock on your door or your background check comes back as "do not sell".

[HaveFaith]

How many times will we pretend that comparing cars and guns is realistic?

I do realize that cars are not protected under the Bill of Rights, but think that people tend to get spun up on guns because they only see one side of it. More people die each year as a result of cars than they do by guns.

I will note that cars are regulated...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 33,687
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.9

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,672
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3