From Backwoods Home Magazine: 2nd Amendment, the Bill of Rights...long read, but worth it

[wshngtn1]

I hadn't seen that before either. They are going for over $1500 with a msrp of $800ish.

[Jumbo]

I hadn't seen that before either. They are going for over $1500 with a msrp of $800ish.

Damn you, I was trying NOT to find out the price --also, l didn't want to continue the OT tangent.

[twa]

I got to play with one last week at the SHOT Show....it was awesome!

It certainly looks it, new to me

[Elessar78]

Is this a gun to play with or for family protection?

[Destino]

Is this a gun to play with or for family protection?

Yes.

[Jumbo]

Damn you, I was trying NOT to find out the price --also, l didn't want to continue the OT tangent.

Gentlemen (a term which apparently no longer fits the other thread, currently ), since my easy going attempt failed (and admitting again I participated) it is time to end this tangent and get back on topic if you're going to post in this thread.

[Bang]

OK what legislation specifically has handcuffed police and the ATF. Please provide with stats to back up this claim.[COLOR="Gold"]

the links to videos which detail the entire thing have been posted all week, it's been in the news for a month.
Pay attention.You can feel free to research it, or you can sit on your ass and demand to be spoonfed.


But, for the sake of fair play, I'll get you started. Here's what the police think about rep. Tiahrt's (R) law restricting police and ATF from requiring gun dealers to conduct inventory checks to detect loss and theft
http://protectpolice.org/facts


Here's the NRA commenting on the same legisltation, and telling us why it's a good thing that police cannot trace stolen firearms.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fa...13/tiahrt.aspx

Here's more about why the police cannot share trace data and must destroy all background check info within 24 hours.
http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-...rt-amendments/

Here's a society of Mayors against Illegal guns commenting on how this tiahrt amendment has hamstrung their law enforcement efforts to get illegal guns off their streets and to track illegal guns back to their source.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns....l/tiahrt.shtml

Here's an article from 2010 detailing how the NRA pushed the law, and what it does to cripple law enforcement efforts


This should be plenty of information from a variety of sources about the law and it's effects.

~Bang

[wshngtn1]

This should be plenty of information from a variety of sources about the law and it's effects.

~Bang

I read through your links and it does sound like they are handcuffed. However I'm going to research it more. And I want find out the increase in gun crime that followed these amendments in 2003. If I read it right that information was available from the inception of tracing in 1968 through 2003. I would expect to see a decent jump between 2003 and 2005. And while I don't doubt that some of that information could be useful in fighting gun crime, it's highly doubtful it would have done much of anything in some of these mass shooting (which I realize isn't your main point). I will continue to read up on this. Sometimes spoon feeding is worth it.

[scruffylookin]

The 2nd amendment is as needed or relevant as the 3rd yet it's amusing and sad that I live in a country where there are those who think the 2nd Amendment is one of the most important "rights" there is.

Put down the boomstick and try reading a book and maybe get an education. It'll do a mind some good.

[Bang]

I read through your links and it does sound like they are handcuffed. However I'm going to research it more. And I want find out the increase in gun crime that followed these amendments in 2003. If I read it right that information was available from the inception of tracing in 1968 through 2003. I would expect to see a decent jump between 2003 and 2005. And while I don't doubt that some of that information could be useful in fighting gun crime, it's highly doubtful it would have done much of anything in some of these mass shooting (which I realize isn't your main point). I will continue to read up on this. Sometimes spoon feeding is worth it.

Well, i have no idea what the national data on gun crime as a whole will reflect, (It's been generally on the decline) but this particular bit of legislation does indeed make it very hard for police to get a handle on the bad guys who ruin it for everyone, so to speak.

I'm not a person who thinks we have a massive gun CRIME problem, and i'm not against gun ownership at all.. we have a problem with proliferation and guns landing in the wrong hands. The Tiahrt amendment certainly makes it more difficult to get those things under control, makes it easier for unscrupulous dealers to sell to crooks, and for all the world looks like the NRA speaks out of one side of it's mouth (enforce current laws) and then does something entirely different (handcuffs police from dong so).


~Bang

[twa]

Bang....Why not focus on the individual that bought the guns(and had a background check),then sold them to crooks?

attempting to punish dealers that obey the law seems sketchy

[sacase]

the links to videos which detail the entire thing have been posted all week, it's been in the news for a month.
Pay attention.You can feel free to research it, or you can sit on your ass and demand to be spoonfed.


But, for the sake of fair play, I'll get you started. Here's what the police think about rep. Tiahrt's (R) law restricting police and ATF from requiring gun dealers to conduct inventory checks to detect loss and theft
http://protectpolice.org/facts


Here's the NRA commenting on the same legisltation, and telling us why it's a good thing that police cannot trace stolen firearms.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fa...13/tiahrt.aspx

Here's more about why the police cannot share trace data and must destroy all background check info within 24 hours.
http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-...rt-amendments/

Here's a society of Mayors against Illegal guns commenting on how this tiahrt amendment has hamstrung their law enforcement efforts to get illegal guns off their streets and to track illegal guns back to their source.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns....l/tiahrt.shtml

Here's an article from 2010 detailing how the NRA pushed the law, and what it does to cripple law enforcement efforts


This should be plenty of information from a variety of sources about the law and it's effects.

~Bang

Ok I am not entirely sure how this is a bad thing. From what I have read about the amendment in question it allows local, state, and federal law enforcement to access the data as long as it is in connection to a investigation. Not sure how they are handcuffed.

This is similar to other laws that protect personal information. The law prevents private information from being released to people who do not have a legitimate need for it. I am kind of shocked at the outrage to this. People get upset when the government collects information on them like phone calls which can potentially hinder terrorist attacks, but want them to have full access to this information. I guess as long as it fits a particular agenda then it is fine. The only thing I think should be changed is the mandatory inventories. I don't think a mandatory inventory of certain classes of firearms would be to much to ask if it was conducted once a month.

[Popeman38]

The 2nd amendment is as needed or relevant as the 3rd yet it's amusing and sad that I live in a country where there are those who think the 2nd Amendment is one of the most important "rights" there is.

Put down the boomstick and try reading a book and maybe get an education. It'll do a mind some good.

Funny how this is your reaction to the 2nd. I'd imagine if the outcry was about handcuffing the 1st amendment your reponse would be different. The 2nd amendment is the most legislated amendment we have.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Funny how this is your reaction to the 2nd. I'd imagine if the outcry was about handcuffing the 1st amendment your reponse would be different. The 2nd amendment is the most legislated amendment we have.

With good reason, what's more is that the reason so much ink has been legislated on the 2nd is because groups like the NRA kkep working to weaken the legislation, as such new legislation has to be written to close the gaps they created.

[Bang]

Bang....Why not focus on the individual that bought the guns(and had a background check),then sold them to crooks?

attempting to punish dealers that obey the law seems sketchy

strange how "attempting to catch the guilty" is transformed into 'attempting to punish the innocent".

Allowing the ATF to do their job do absolutely nothing to reputable gun dealers who operate within the law.. maybe a little more paperwork, and a bit more dilligence in their stocktaking. Heaven forbid!

But it would play hell on those dealers who don't.


Bottom line,, do we want to 'enforce current laws' , or is that just lip service?

~Bang