Tim Tebow = Jim Jensen = A Great Fit For Redskins

[DogofWar1]

Kleese, I understand what you want to bring to the team with a guy like Tebow, I just don't think Tebow is the guy to do it.

There is definitely value to a player who can block, run, pass, and catch, filling the role of FB, RB, QB, and WR. The ability to have someone in the backfield who can also go out wide and pass in a pinch is incredible. I don't think Tebow is that guy. I remember him running about trying to fill one of those roles in Denver in the first half of 2011, and he was very poor at it, and there has been nothing since then to indicate he's grown in ability.

I would much rather spend a pick on Robinson, Klein, or Florence, and spend the 2013 season converting them into that weapon, than trying to do it with Tebow.

[BKSkinsFan]

I actually believe football is the exception to getting "best player available" regardless of need. If you see someone with great talent, yet you have a system that cannot fully utilize it, why would you bring them in? Great teams draft great players that fit their scheme. This is why the Steelers are always stacked at LB. More times than not, when those guys leave for the big contract, (Chad Brown, Greg Lloyd, Joey Porter), they never produce at the same level they did in Pittsburgh. It's the same way with Shanny drafting RBs.

For the life of me I can't see any situation where bringing in Tebow would benefit this team. If you really want an expensive punt protector that badly, we could always see what Adam Archuletta is up to.

[MCnDaHouse]

While I agree with the OP's reasoning and logic, I don't think at this point it would work. There's just too much of a circus around Tebow right now. Yes if he would agree to come in and not play QB he would be useful. But I don't think that's where his heart is right now. Also do we really need him? Yes, he would be a good RB but we have Alfred Morris, Helu, etc. so we don't need another running back. I haven't seen him play TE so I don't know that he could effectively play TE. H-back, maybe but do we really need the distraction to try to use him at H-Back?

I think those are the questions any GM will have to answer and evaluate in order to bring him in.

[kleese]

I actually believe football is the exception to getting "best player available" regardless of need. If you see someone with great talent, yet you have a system that cannot fully utilize it, why would you bring them in? Great teams draft great players that fit their scheme. This is why the Steelers are always stacked at LB. More times than not, when those guys leave for the big contract, (Chad Brown, Greg Lloyd, Joey Porter), they never produce at the same level they did in Pittsburgh. It's the same way with Shanny drafting RBs.

For the life of me I can't see any situation where bringing in Tebow would benefit this team. If you really want an expensive punt protector that badly, we could always see what Adam Archuletta is up to.

Disagree strongly with this. The Patriots are a great example.

Six years ago, the Pats rarely threw the ball to their TEs, but they identified Gronk and Hernandez as special talents, drafted them in back to back rounds, and adapted their offense to utilize their talents. They do this over and over again. When they had Moss, they stretche the field more, etc.

Get the best players, find ways to utilize them. It's what great organizations do. The Niners adapted their offense midseason to greater utilize Kap.....

[pjfootballer]

Gronk played TE in college and Hernandez played WR and some TE in college. They didn't draft them and then ask them to change positions. They are utilizing them how they were intended to be used. In your OP, you are wanting to use Tebow at FB or TE, positions he's not accustomed to. Those two situations are just not the same.

And as far as the Patriots go, sounds like Oldfan got in your head, because I'm so tired of this "mistique" that somehow the Patriots are so head and shoulders above everyone else, when in reality they are not. The "Patriot Way" hasn't won a SB in 8 years.

I think the Patriots have been so poor at finding WRs (and look at their list, they've tried) since Moss was traded/let go, that they have no choice but to use the TEs. I see a lack of deep passing and I still wonder every time I watch them, why the CBs just don't press the hell out of their WRs and TEs? Their game is screens and slants. I know easier said than done against Brady, but I think that's the way to beat their offense right now.

[kleese]

Gronk played TE in college and Hernandez played WR and some TE in college. They didn't draft them and then ask them to change positions. They are utilizing them how they were intended to be used. In your OP, you are wanting to use Tebow at FB or TE, positions he's not accustomed to. Those two situations are just not the same.

And as far as the Patriots go, sounds like Oldfan got in your head, because I'm so tired of this "mistique" that somehow the Patriots are so head and shoulders above everyone else, when in reality they are not. The "Patriot Way" hasn't won a SB in 8 years.

I think the Patriots have been so poor at finding WRs (and look at their list, they've tried) since Moss was traded/let go, that they have no choice but to use the TEs. I see a lack of deep passing and I still wonder every time I watch them, why the CBs just don't press the hell out of their WRs and TEs? Their game is screens and slants. I know easier said than done against Brady, but I think that's the way to beat their offense right now.

The point is that good teams find good players and then utilize them.... Even if it means deviating from why they normally do. Obviously, my opinion is that Tebow would be very good in those other roles....if I thought it was just a wild shot in the dark I'd never suggest it.

And "The Patriot Way" would be fine with me. Five SB appearances in 13 years, 6 Champsionship Game appearances, and they almost always win 12+ games per season. They are always relevant, always in the mix. They haven't been able to get over the hump lately, but I think it's pretty clear they know a thing or two about team building--- at least offensively .

[HeluCopter29]

I think he'd be great in this offense with how open our receivers get. A great backup QB for us for sure.

I'm just not sure I want him in the locker room.

[pjfootballer]

The point is that good teams find good players and then utilize them.... Even if it means deviating from why they normally do. Obviously, my opinion is that Tebow would be very good in those other roles....if I thought it was just a wild shot in the dark I'd never suggest it.

And "The Patriot Way" would be fine with me. Five SB appearances in 13 years, 6 Champsionship Game appearances, and they almost always win 12+ games per season. They are always relevant, always in the mix. They haven't been able to get over the hump lately, but I think it's pretty clear they know a thing or two about team building--- at least offensively .

I wanted to let you know that I do see your view on the matter (Tebow), but I disagree that it would work here.

I would love to have the same success as the Patriots, but it looks like it's fading. They won 3 SBs in 4 years, but haven't hit paydirt lately. But I also take it with a grain of salt and will wonder how the Patriots will do when Brady starts to decline or is not in the lineup for longer than 1 season. I know some look to the Matt Cassell year, but a team can survive 1 season. What I'm saying is, it will be interesting to see how good the "Patriot Way" is after Brady is gone.

The "Steeler Way" has somewhat lost a bit of its luster also, the last couple of years and with their aging team, I really think they've been very poor with their drafts and personnel decisions and are in for some lean times. They usually churn out draft picks, but alot of them have not produced they way the should have which is how they would build their team.

[Skins Wingman]

if he's willing to play other positions, i say give it a try and see what he does. the more playmakers on the field, the better. no team is going to give tebow a shot at qb. he will learn this this offseason and he will be forced to take on a different role. the only 2 teams interested in him last year were the jets and jags, and obviously the jets dont want him and the jags came out and said they dont either. so he has no other choice. if we can get that into his head, i think its worth a shot.

[BKSkinsFan]

Disagree strongly with this. The Patriots are a great example.

Six years ago, the Pats rarely threw the ball to their TEs, but they identified Gronk and Hernandez as special talents, drafted them in back to back rounds, and adapted their offense to utilize their talents. They do this over and over again. When they had Moss, they stretche the field more, etc.

Get the best players, find ways to utilize them. It's what great organizations do. The Niners adapted their offense midseason to greater utilize Kap.....

I think there's a disconnect between what we're saying here. I'm not saying don't get a great TE because you don't throw to them much now. I'm saying you don't bring in a lineman that's great in the power run game when you have a zone blocking scheme. You don't get a great fast defensive tackle and make him a nose tackle. Last but not least you don't bring in a 3rd string QB and make him a FB or a TE, especially when we have very good players at both positions that don't come with a media frenzy. Face it, this is a huge stretch, and a move that Vinny wouldn't even try.

[SkinsGuy]

kleese writes:

If you want to avoid a circus, then we should just announce RG3 is out for the 2013 season.....100% of the hype/questions in camp and pre-season will be rehashing his injury and an endless stream of "when will he be ready," questions. It will totally and completely dominate the talk surrounding the team. Shanny will get grilled constantly about what happened and what he will do next time RG3 limps. And when he does come back, whenever that is, there will be many people saying it's too early, etc. etc.

The obvious difference is that RG3 is a special player. A gifted player. A man that has already shown how good he is in just his rookie season that it makes any "circus" or media storm that brews around him MORE than worth it and easily tolerable.

You may feel that Tebow is a solid player. You might even feel he is a good player. However, he is by no means a special player. Not by a longshot.

You don't tolerate the media storm and the distraction for just solid role players, which is what you are suggesting Tebow be. We can get the production you seek from some other up-and comer.

This is one time I'd rather the baggage end up in another town.

[Dirt]

I wish he HAD started for the Jets. He would have been worse than Sanchez and then finally maybe everyone would shut up about him.

I really don't care that the Broncos managed a playoff win last year. Our 7-0 run was convincing. Theirs was literally called 'magical', 'unbelievable' week after week. He has done NOTHING in the league. His stats are the WORST of all QBs...LAUGHABLE stats. He isn't going to MAGICALLY learn TE or FB. He does not automatically make a 'great' backup (seriously, some of you in this thread a GREAT backup????seriously???) just because he gave some sappy speech at Florida. And not just because he's a nice guy with good values either. He is THE worst QB in the league. Even with the playoff run they didn't want him anymore for eff's sake. (and no, it wasn't just because of Peyton, Elway was sick of laughable QB play)

Frankly, it's unfair to everyone else in the league the way Tebow is brought up and judged. Do other QBs who play poorly get another chance at another position? HELL NO. Why Tebow? ANYONE ELSE with his performance is barely in the UFL right now. It's RIDICULOUS. Sorry kleese, you are the man, but this is nuts. There are so many other players with just as much (well, more really) potential, that actually play their positions well. I would rather have Rex Grossman the QB. I would rather have Logan Paulsen the TE, etc, etc.

[NLC1054]

Get the best players, find ways to utilize them. It's what great organizations do. The Niners adapted their offense midseason to greater utilize Kap.....

1.) Tebow is not the "best player" at any position, except maybe goal line back, and we've already got one of those.

2.) The Patriots never planned to draft two tight ends in back to back rounds. Hell, before the draft, they didn't even have that draft pick; it took McDaniels (coincidentally) trading up for Tebow and San Francisco trading the pick it got from the Broncos for the Patriots to even acquire that pick, and then it took the Jets passing up Aaron Hernandez for Joe friggin' McKnight for them to get Hernandez in the first place. (Yes, I know they took Dustin Keller in the first round in 2008.) Not to mention Hernandez probably would've gone higher than he did if he didn't have a bad drug test at the Senior Bowl that year.

As pjfootball pointed out, the shift to a two tight end look had less to do with planning to use them both from the start and more to do with them lucking into two incredible talents and basically being completely incapable of developing any wide receivers themselves. They didn't do anything special; they followed their board. And then Belichick did that very Belichick thing he always does and decided he didn't want to pay Randy Moss. Then he was called a genius for lucking into two starting tight ends and shipping off his best receiver.


You say they find ways to utilize talent. Brandon Meriweather was a great, playmaking strong safety for the Patriots. And then for seemingly no reason he put Meriweather at free safety and Patrick Chung at strong safety. Then he cut Meriweather and put Patrick Chung at free safety and couldn't find anyone to play strong safety. Then he drafted a 7th round safety in the second round, then put one of his best corners at free safety and a free agent from the Chargers at strong safety and had to spend a draft pick to replace the corner that they moved to safety. Finally they were able to cobble together just enough of a functioning secondary to not completely suck, and they still weren't very good.

As for the Niners adapting their offense midseason to utilize Kap, they didn't even start doing that until the saw RGIII running it, and even then, it took Alex Smith getting hurt for them to fully commit to it. On top of that, Kap had a year on the bench to help him out there.

[joe]

I don't think that there is a question that Tebow is a very good football player, but not a very good quarterback. He just takes too long to deliver the ball.

While he could be a very good player here, I don't think that he is ready to give up on being a starting NFL quarterback. Even with the debacle that was the Jets this season, he has not hit "rock bottom" yet.

Besides, while I think that there are many very good football players out there who could fill the type of role envisioned in this thread if given the chance, it is just not that easy. The problem is that most are not able or willing to spend the time learning multiple positions. The NFL has just become so specialized that a player like Lorenzo Alexander, who had both the will and ability to absorb all the nuances of each position that he has played, are just not that common. We don't actually know that Tebow has the capacity to do that.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face. He's not a NFL-caliber QB, that much is clear. But he's a very talented football player and athlete. I have to imagine an offensive coordinator somewhere could put him in the right role to make plays in the NFL. The key is that he can't be your main weapon. If he can be a hybrid player to line up all over the field and either present a mismatch or serve as a decoy, then I think he could help an offensive move the chains and produce.

I understand what you're saying and I shouldn't have been so blunt in my remarks. This is what I was getting at...

Tebow was a great college player. One of the best to ever play. The pro game is different, and I don't think his skillset translates to the NFL. To make a comparison, Tyler Hansbrough (Tar Heel) was an absolute beast in college hoops. However, his raw power and off the charts work ethic do not translate to dominating in the NBA.

Tebow simply cannot make all the throws that he needs to make to be successful under center. And if you moved him to H-Back, I'm not sure he'd be any better than the other guys in the league that play that position. I admire Tebow for the way he plays the game, I just don't see the fascination with the guy. Did the Broncos win a playoff game with him? Yes. But it was after his team collapsed down the stretch, due to the fact that teams exposed him in the read option. The reason was because he couldn't throw the ball accurately. The Patriots made him look ridiculous, and I think he would have many more games like that, than games where he miraculously willed his team to victory.