Yahoo: Insight: Evidence grows for narcolepsy link to GSK swine flu shot

[PeterMP]

http://news.yahoo.com/insight-eviden...--finance.html
The long and short of is that a vaccine for H1N1 that was approved in much of western Europe, but not the US has been tied to narcolepsy.

Out of 30 million people that recieved the vaccine about 800 have gotten narcolepsy.

"Emelie is one of around 800 children in Sweden and elsewhere in Europe who developed narcolepsy, an incurable sleep disorder, after being immunized with the Pandemrix H1N1 swine flu vaccine made by British drugmaker GlaxoSmithKline in 2009."

Now, there would have been some narcolepsy rate w/o the vaccine so it probably isn't safe to say that all 800 are from the vaccine.

But its pretty clear the vaccine increased risk:

"Independent teams of scientists have published peer-reviewed studies from Sweden, Finland and Ireland showing the risk of developing narcolepsy after the 2009-2010 immunization campaign was between seven and 13 times higher for children who had Pandemrix than for their unvaccinated peers."

Now, I'm sure that some people are going to jump on this an claim that this shows that vaccines aren't safe, and clearly, I think it shows that some vaccines for some people aren't safe.

But I think also it shows how in the case of what is a pretty rare (800 out of 30 million), but serious side affect the medical and public health communities respond.

"In his glass-topped office building overlooking the Maria Magdalena church in Stockholm, Goran Stiernstedt, a doctor turned public health official, has spent many difficult hours going over what happened in his country during the swine flu pandemic, wondering if things should have been different.

"The big question is was it worth it? And retrospectively I have to say it was not," he told Reuters in an interview."

"The World Health Organisation (WHO) says the 2009-2010 pandemic killed 18,500 people, although a study last year said that total might be up to 15 times higher.

While estimates vary, Stiernstedt says Sweden's mass vaccination saved between 30 and 60 people from swine flu death. Yet since the pandemic ended, more than 200 cases of narcolepsy have been reported in Sweden.

With hindsight, this risk-benefit balance is unacceptable. "This is a medical tragedy," he said. "Hundreds of young people have had their lives almost destroyed.""

There's been no cover up. GSK has been prettys slow to admit any fault, but from the public side there hasn't been a whole lot of punches pulled.

The story goes onto describe the problems with protecting publich health in cases of a possible panademic vs. the risk of vaccines and how you balance that.

[Die Hard]

http://vactruth.com/2013/01/06/paral...gitis-vaccine/

Minimum of 40 Children Paralyzed After New Meningitis Vaccine

On December 20, 2012, a vaccination tragedy hit the small village of Gouro, located in northern Chad, Africa. According to the newspaper La Voix, out of five hundred children who received the new meningitis vaccine MenAfriVac, at least 40 of them between the ages of 7 and 18 have become paralyzed. Those children also suffered hallucinations and convulsions.

Since this report, the true extent of this tragedy is coming to light, as parents of these vaccinated children have reported yet more injuries. The authorities in the area are shaken, as citizens set fire to a sanitary administration vehicle in a demonstration of their frustration and anger at the government’s negligence.[1]

“We wish that our children would get their health back,” shared the parent of a sick child.

[Enter Apotheosis]

http://vactruth.com/2013/01/06/paral...gitis-vaccine/

That site seems like a legit source of unbiased topical news

[Die Hard]

That site seems like a legit source of unbiased topical news

Are you suggesting that the statistics, information and personal accounts from the story are inaccurate?

[PeterMP]

Are you suggesting that the statistics, information and personal accounts from the story are inaccurate?

Would you admit that at the local level that it is possible that it was something other than the vaccine?

Your article even says:

"1. Was this a faulty batch of vaccines?

2. Did the vaccinators inadvertently vaccinate using an unsafe product?

3. Was the product out of refrigeration too long?

4. Were the vaccinators fully trained?"

Maybe the answer is, it wasn't even the vaccine, but some local issue with drinking water or something else.

That at best your story is incomplete in terms of drawing any conclusions about vaccines.

How many people total have been vaccinated with this vaccine using the same process?
How many people have gotten sick?

I'm not saying your story is wrong. Clearly, in failed countries, there can be all sorts of issues that aren't even necessarily directly related to the vaccine or those that are related to the vaccine, but are unlikely to happen in better countries (e.g. some sort of corruption where for monetary reasons the real vaccine wasn't even given by somebody acting intentionally during the process to make money).

However, the story is pretty clearly pushing a particular conclusion, while missing a lot of evidence.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Are you suggesting that the statistics, information and personal accounts from the story are inaccurate?

I am only pointing out that your source can't be counted upon to be objective. It might be dead-on in this particular instance but I find it highly suspicious that the only places harping on these events are all of the same anti-vaccination ilk (the venerable Alex Jones being among them). The more benign ones leave the situation as an open-ended question of the vaccine's role but many do not.

The Chad Ministry of Health has indicated that there's no evidence that the incident was caused by the vaccine, that one child who did not get vaccinated claimed the same symptoms, and that the kids actually checked out just fine under medical examination. Now, I'm sure you could argue a coverup or something of that nature but this smells like baseless panic to me.

Oh... and count me in with those who consider refusing to answer questions posed to you as being exceptionally poor form. Reminds me of a certain Stadium poster.

[Die Hard]

I am only pointing out that your source can't be counted upon to be objective.

Name me any person or institution that doesn`t have a bias. Because I`m sure that you do not have a bias as a caucasian, a male, an American, a young adult, a democratic political environment, your economic, religious and cultural environment, your upbringing (the beliefs your parents had and gave to you).

Nah, let`s just point out everyone else`s bias... and pretend we don`t have any. Let`s ignore the message... and shoot the messenger. That`s a Republican tactic right.

You must have smoked dope at some point right. That makes you a stoner. Perhaps you get drunk regularly... you`re an alcoholic. It`s just impossible to take anything you say seriously.... because you are an addict of some sort. That`s how we`ll play it.

Do you know why I refuse to answer PeterMP`s questions.... because he asked questions that he himself cannot answer. So you leave open the possibility.

But using this tactic.... I`ll throw it back at you. Prove to me that you didn`t have sex with your dog last night. I mean really, it`s a possibility. I`m sure that you can`t account for every moment of your day... and you don`t have an alibi for every moment. Who`s to say when you went to the washroom... that you didn`t take a minute to bring the dog into the garage and got your rocks off. I can`t prove you did... but you can`t truly prove you didn`t either. I`m just saying there`s a possibility you screwed your dog last night.

[zoony]

Now, I'm sure that some people are going to jump on this an claim that this shows that vaccines aren't safe, and clearly, I think it shows that some vaccines for some people aren't safe.

.

Would never happen

[Die Hard]

Would never happen

Andy, sometimes I just don`t get you brother.

On one hand... you recently said that you believed all cyclists are dopers.... and that most NFL players are on PEDs. So you are implying that: (1) either the science is simply inadequate and incapable of catching the cheaters or (2) that large organizations are consciously aware of this reality but simply covers up the results to protect the sport... which implies a conspiracy.

And yet, you seem to have negative associations to people who question science regarding vaccinations or pharmaceutical misinformation.

---------- Post added January-24th-2013 at 07:38 AM ----------

Would you admit that at the local level that it is possible that it was something other than the vaccine?

Your article even says:

"1. Was this a faulty batch of vaccines?

2. Did the vaccinators inadvertently vaccinate using an unsafe product?

3. Was the product out of refrigeration too long?

4. Were the vaccinators fully trained?"

Maybe the answer is, it wasn't even the vaccine, but some local issue with drinking water or something else.

That at best your story is incomplete in terms of drawing any conclusions about vaccines.

How many people total have been vaccinated with this vaccine using the same process?
How many people have gotten sick?

I'm not saying your story is wrong. Clearly, in failed countries, there can be all sorts of issues that aren't even necessarily directly related to the vaccine or those that are related to the vaccine, but are unlikely to happen in better countries (e.g. some sort of corruption where for monetary reasons the real vaccine wasn't even given by somebody acting intentionally during the process to make money).

However, the story is pretty clearly pushing a particular conclusion, while missing a lot of evidence.

Hey Pete, good questions. Since you asked them.. the onus is on you to provide the answers to them. I`d love to hear what you find.

[Special K]

That's it. Ban vaccines.

EDIT: Okay, some personal thoughts on a serious note since this is a serious subject and deserves more than my smartassness :

1. I sincerely am very sorry for these victims; this truly is a terrible tragedy.

2. It will be interesting to see study conclusions regarding genetic predisposition and adjuvant interaction in manifestation of narcolepsy in this study population. I read the article, but didn't see it mentioned, does it mention which journal this study will be published in? BMJ?

3. I agree that it is nice to see the medical and public health community, for the most part, appearing to be very open and transparent about this issue and be willing to devote funding to its study. Maybe some people will see this and actually realize we aren't trying to kill the earth's population with our vaccine recommenations. Maybe not

One of the hardest things to deal with in pandemic situations is the cost-benefit analysis and whether the benefits of pushing a new vaccine in the face of a pandemic outweigh the costs (or potential costs). Until our scienific methods evolve further (like making a universal flu vaccine that protects against all strains...many, many, many years from now, hopefully), there will always be epidemic emergency situations that may not have a satisfactory outcome in all cases in all regions. That's the nature of vaccination: it's not perfect, but it has been scientifically proven time and time again to have minimized risk of certain diseases and even eradicated diseases both in the developed world and even worldwide.

That said, I'm not trying to minimize this tragedy in Europe or what these victims are going to have to deal with for the rest of their lives. This is very bad and I hope they are able to figure out what the exact cause(s) was so it can be rectified for future vaccination campaigns.

Also, another interesting sidenote: I wonder what the guidelines are in the US regarding adjuvanted vaccines and what studies they based these guidelines on? And why other countries appeared to have less of a problem with adjuvanted vaccines than us?

[Major Harris]

I think the gov't conspiracy saved us here....we didn't get the shot in the US because our government thought this would be too obvious and would blow the cover of the conspiracy to kill us all thru vaccinations.

[Special K]

I think the gov't conspiracy saved us here....we didn't get the shot in the US because our government thought this would be too obvious and would blow the cover of the conspiracy to kill us all thru vaccinations.

Well, with FEMA receiving so much publicity these last few years, our government knew it would be too conspicuous to simultaneously run its FEMA death camps and vaccination population-thinning campaign.

[Major Harris]

Translation is I got nothing

[Die Hard]

Translation is I got nothing

Perhaps I am employing a well-known learning strategy. I can give you answers... but it won`t mean anything to you and you will question everything I say. But instead, I will guide you to come to your own conclusions... and perhaps that will carry more meaning for you.

[Corcaigh]

Perhaps I am employing a well-known learning strategy. I can give you answers... but it won`t mean anything to you and you will question everything I say. But instead, I will guide you to come to your own conclusions... and perhaps that will carry more meaning for you.

Oh no you didn't.